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what wuss said...

1999 Topic Index

Posted by Jean on 05/04

ok, im posting this a post apart so even the imms will look at it (well, if they saw the part about me usually not quoting in starting posts anyways)- why -not- have a nice little gag feature in the board code? Wuss said it the best in his read next append (post 47). Ironically, he wrote it -just- before Sandras post, the one saying how I should stop quoting- clearly, Wusss solution is a much more peaceful one. From what Ive heard, however, instead of doing this, it seems that what might be decided is that im just denied access from the boards. let the record show that i -do- have some defenders, notably ulric, skateboarder and ronnie), why not do some code thatll antagonize -no one- and solve the problem in almost exactly the same way- people who dont want to see my posts wont have to.

From: Sabella Sunday, May 02, 08:41AM

Jean, a gag command for boards might solve everyone else's problem with your quoting, but will not solve your problem (the one you don't seem to realize you have) with communicating your message. As you yourself have pointed out, if everyone really wanted to get rid of you, the easiest way to do so would be to quit responding to you. As your enjoyment of the game is clearly defined by the social discussion element, if noone reads your posts and noone responds to them, you won't be having fun. Both the gag command you're campaigning for, and a board of your own will accomplish just that - help/allow people not to read what you're writing. Those who would -like- to read and discuss what you have to say, but need your help in communicating in a manner we can deal with are not aided at all. As to paraphrasing. Repeating someone else's words exactly does not indicate that you have heard or, more importantly, understood them. If you take any class in effective communication (or look it up on the net), they indicate that repeating the other person's comments -in your own words- is a particularly effective means of indicating you are listening and understanding, and responding to the intent of the other person you are trying to communicate with (rather than thinking of your 'rebuttal' while they're talking, for example). Certainly it is more difficult - who said communication was supposed to be easy? No, immorts are not technically required to read everything on any of the boards. Most of us, who have spent a lot of time and energy on this game and care about it a great deal, choose to do so. It is one of the few actually effective means of communication we have with the players, works somewhat well (has it's own problems) for player input and discussion of player ideas (the discussion board, that is). I would think the last thing that anyone who wants to see their ideas considered and possibly implemented wants is to discourage immorts (especially immorts like rufus who has a lot of ability to implement and a very limited amount of time anymore) from reading this board. As to Ceri using the info channel for congrats and condolences. No this is not 'spam'. She is using the channel as it is intended to be used. It says so specifically in help channels. The info channel is for announcement of death and levels and congrats and condolences of such. It is possible to turn off everything except the announcements, if you don't care to hear the grats etc. If she is interferring with your conversation, maybe you should take conversation to chat: the channel intended for conversation. A definition of spam: when the 'noise' level exceeds the 'content' level, it's spam. There is content in what you have to say. There's also a great deal of 'noise' (repeating of what everyone else has said, and quite often what you've said, ad nauseum). The noise level is heavily outweighing the content. You've been asked many times to reduce the noise level, while retaining the content and I fail to see why that is so difficult for you -except- that I have a suspicion you would see this as 'losing'. Which brings me to... apparently you see discussion as some sort of battle something akin to pk in words. There are 'winners' and 'losers' in your view. In my opinion, the only way to 'win' in conversation would be to put forth your view in such a way that it is well understood and sway other people to your point of view, and to be able to compromise and give on points so that there is a satisfactory conclusion where everyone feels happy and noone feels like a 'loser' (no, I'm not saying I'm good at this) If you make other people feel bad, if they quit responding to you, if they won't listen to your points, you have actually -lost- even though you might have had the last word. The last -word- is useless in debate, and so is hurting and upsetting the people you want to sway to your opinions. As to xping being boring (or whatever else people are doing) so everyone should be happy to put their time into reading, debating, talking, helping newbies or whatever else you see as less boring (or even hitting read next a lot). Different people have different levels of tedium/reward they find necessary to enjoy a game. There needs to be some of both - some difficulty, need to strive, or the game is too easy and some amount of reward that makes that striving worthwhile. Fir example, I find chess unimaginably boring, way too tedious for the reward of winning, but I love bridge and will happily spend hours going over various possible combinations of hands and the bidding and play just to improve at the game The kinds of things I need to put into bridge are enjoyable somewhere in MY head, and make the tedium worthwhile. I do not expect other people to feel the same as I do. I think you would do well to consider that even though you find some activities the most boring thing you can imagine other people may very well enjoy them (which isn't to say that mob killing doesn't need to be made more interesting). I think that's everything I had to say, though the noise level is so high, it's really hard to tell anymore. Sabella

From: Sabella Sunday, May 02, 09:25AM

I misspoke. The admin immorts responsible for maintaining a reasonable level of conversation on open channels and boards (no cussing, no game play info, no racial slurs etc.) are literally required to read all the boards (including even the guestbooks and such-like). I, as an asst. builder, am not. Sorry, Sabella

From: Embeth Sunday, May 02, 09:37AM

Well spoken, Sabella Embeth

From: Krystal Sunday, May 02, 07:08PM

in append 1, Sabella writes: (part 1 of 2) i communicate my message just fine with people who have a little time to scan through a few quotes (maybe reading a few for proper context, as i intended). As is clear in board 58, there are some people that feel that the way i write should be accepted by everyone. Yep. but that just doesnt happen.. which suggests that they -do- want to talk to me. Exactly. But that hasnt happened- instead, i was denied access with jean. -exactly-. then the people who -do- want to read my posts can read them and the people who dont wont have to. True enough. My response would (or would not) do that. No one. I think my posts clearly show how difficult it can be to respond to people at times, considering that emotions can be in here a fair amount as well. But why make things unnecessarily complicated? Im glad :-). such as? nods. When I have a -really- good idea, ill start a post with it. After that, its an idea in debate and doesnt need an immortal to look at it right away- ill wait until the debate is over- if i win it, -then- i might consider doing a post solely on that. Ive used this method in the past (sorta) such as when wuss and a few others refused to respond to my posts anymore (so i took it that i won by default) and posted hypocrisy and avoidance). Perhaps the way its intended to be used should be changed. People like me and Wuss certainly think so and were not the only ones. the info channel can be used for exchanging certain info though- the very name suggests it should be used for that. However, if its being used up by Ceris grats and all, it can wreck this to a certain extent. Im talking mainly theoretical here, as I turned off the info channel long ago, but Wuss and others, whove gotten used to using it in the way described above feel differently. To me, an automated grats is all noise and no content- id think wuss feels the same way. i repeat sections of what others have said in order to provide context to my replies without having to paraphrase. I repeat what I say at times simply because people dont read all my posts and so will miss what ive said here or there. Recently, ive been using some of my posts as reference points, as this one is, to avoid repeating points ive already made.

From: Krystal Sunday, May 02, 07:08PM

in append 1, Sabella writes: (part 2 of 2) According to many, perhaps. Not all though. And the fact of the matter is, if people -really- did think it was noisy, everyone would just stop replying to my posts. But that certainly hasnt happened- in fact, im now practically the -only- topic on here. You always seem to avoid my points. Perhaps -you- should quote me- that way, id just be able to look above and show you where ive already rebutted your points, he he :-p. And yet you think you can teach it. Im not trying to make anyone lose. As I told Sandra, I told her shed get no peace until she tried to compromise with me- such as, say, making me my own board, where only people who wanted to talk to me could talk to me. But she -does- want to win and win badly. Its the whole pk mentality, something that I -never- got into. I dont want to upset people, but at times, theres no way to avoid it and make ones points in the way that one feels the need to do it in. Hey, i said xping, not whatever else. For sure. But right now I think that the level of tedium to get to level 50 is -far- to great. Perhaps if the xp required to get there were halved or quests were given a lot more xp.. By the way, im -definitely- not the only person who feels this way- just recently, someone else shivered at the prospect of getting xp on here and ive talked to many others who feel the same way.. Same :-). well, i cant say im the same- you see, far from what you think, I actually really dislike games where you only have 2 choices- to win or lose (sometimes to draw, but rarely). Thats why i like m---s so much- because unless youre into pking, its not -so- much about winning or losing- xping is pretty much a sure bet- put in the hours and youll get to 50. The problem in this case though, is that levelling can get pretty tedious after a while. Ive found very few people who actually enjoy xping to the extent that its currently required to get to 50. <(which isn't to say that mob killing doesn't need to be made more interesting).> that might be pretty difficult to implement- but lessening the amount of xp required to level and raising the amount of xp given per average xp quest wouldnt be.

From: Sandra Sunday, May 02, 07:20PM

You just don't seem to have a clue. This isn't some game between you and I where we see who can hold out the longest. Trust me, you'd lose if it were. Enjoy your latest warning and punishment. Sandra

From: Wanderer Tuesday, May 04, 07:34PM

in response to Sandra (append 6): Ive realized my mistake Sandra- indeed, i quoted too much. Perhaps one day youll realize that denying people access, archiving them and other forms of what is essentially serious harassment in almost any other context, isnt the best way of trying to persuade someone to your opinion. Probably the best argument you could have made you never even bothered to- Sabella made it on your behalf, though- the idea being that you -have- to read everyones posts, whether you like to or not and regardless of what board theyre on (so even if you made me a board, youd have to read them). I hear you even have to read guestbooks.. Id be interested in knowing why Kaige/someone else made this rule up, thats for sure.. Anyways, in reference to yous aying that this isnt a game- life itself can be considered to be a game. And in terms of holding on the longest, youre thinking pretty short term- for one, youre assuming that youll always be head admin. For another, youre assuming that legend will continue to do well indefinitely- it may run into a -myriad- of problems. For yet another, until now, I dont even -know- how to mess around with a mud, but that can always change. In the conversation we had together, you seemed to make it pretty clear that you werent that interested in responding to what i said, frequently not responding to something i said at all- you certainly want a quick response when -you- say something though. heres a hint- treat your players as you would like to be treated. Because you never know when theyll be able to treat you the way -they- like to- when/if that day comes, you might be a lot more interested in the way you treated -them-.


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