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Posted by Infidel on 07/22

What we need is a real trophy for pk.. not just a silly RP strung item but something worth fighting over. Give all GM's of pk clans a +6 hit/dam 0 rent banner making use of the new slots. While it may encourage wolfpacking to some extent, the GM needn't carry it around when he or she has nobody to back them up. Anyways, I think it's worth giving a go for a while at least.

From: Fraegis Saturday, July 17, 06:11PM

Yeah, but why just one for the GM's? Why not one for all members of pkill clans? Or one for all pk-enabled characters? Seems to me that all you want is a free stat bonus, and a way to encourage looting. If you really only want a trophy as you state, a zip string would be more than adequate, and have a rent of 0.

From: Infidel Sunday, July 18, 09:01AM

It would be to encourage more pkill activity and to give all those smeg heads that reason they're always after when killed. The point of it being +hit/dam is that the target wouldn't suffer messed up stats if/when it's taken from them.. You say it seems I want a free stat bonus and a way to encourage looting. I'm not a GM, I'd be in the same boat as everyone else. As for encouraging looting, that's just stupid. It encourages looting of a single item that no person can whine about losing.

From: Feisal Sunday, July 18, 09:51AM

Calling other people's arguments stupid won't make yours valid Infidel.. The fact remains you're proposing a free stat boost from which all the non-pkill would be excluded, giving them an advantage in mob killing just because they are pkill, GM or not -shrug- That is inconsistent with the very basic principles of Legend, and I have every confidence our immort staff never allows it to happen. It's bad enough as it is, pkill being permitted to dictate way too much of the decisions made decisions concerning everyone..

From: Infidel Sunday, July 18, 11:55AM

Those who obtained them wouldn't get much of a chance to mob kill, that's the whole point of it. A cheap light source has been suggested in the past but that's not much of a bonus anymore. Perhaps something like see invis and hidden.. Would that upset you pain in the @#! unclanned? Why don't you tell us what you're willing to put up with so we may have some fun too.

From: Davien Sunday, July 18, 04:37PM

Why don't you tell us whatyou're willing to put up with so we may have some fun too. In reply to that, what I would like to see is EVERY pkiller who participates in a pkill engagement, wether by healing, fighting, inspiring or preping, regardless of length, outcome or intention, glued/muzzeled for the next 20 minutes or so. Failing that, use the same no_ooc timer. Why you ask? Cause almost every single non-clanned is sick to death of hearing the obligatory comments that inevitably follow. 'I would of won if you didn't tumble my blah' 'Well you didn't so you must suck. Bow down to your supreme master' 'Bah, you were just lucky, you should be bowing to me' is a fairly standard exchange. If Craven is around, he'll threaten to multi anyone who runs away. Lets face it, if he doesn't have the skill to finish a fight, then he doesn't deserve the kill. History shows that he doesn't, even with a high perc hunt, and after hearing about it every day, I'm well beyond caring. Maybe this is a bit extreme and would hurt the few pkillers who don't fall into this catagory, but their reputation is being eroded by the majority that do. Even many of the people involved are very nice right up until the fighting starts. Maybe its time they were rendered silent until they cool down and are ready to be normal again. I am sure that if this idea does get immped, and I doubt it every will, some of the respect that pkillers have lost will return. Davien Holyoake.

From: Fraegis Sunday, July 18, 11:27PM

Just to come with another stupid argument, Infidel, I already wrote what would be acceptable. A zip string. What is the problem with that? If noone wants to fight over a zip-string, then pkill needs a little more role-play, perhaps? nd no, you are not a GM, so you won't get the stat bonus from the beginning. But should only GM's be able to loot that item and carry it around? Your post didn't say that.

From: Infidel Monday, July 19, 03:27AM

No I think I pointed out with my original post that a strung zip would be pointless. We're already forced to group in some ways, you're not going to force RP on us too and that's exactly what you're doing by holding back on such things. Ironically though, it's probably backfiring as I'm quite confident that things like this would naturally create scenarios that would promote RP. I came up with another which shouldn't really give any real advantage to pk over unclanned and that is.. Rather than a banner, give each clan ownership of 1 town each. While the title deed is in a clan member's possession, preferably worn so as not to promote looting of bags to check for deeds, the clan account gains say 5k/day every time housing rent is calculated. Since the time this occurs is supossedly random, you wouldn't gain anything by staying rented. I have a feeling this would promote both RP and more pk activity.. Oh and Davien, we've been asking for a permanent pk channel for a long time. I don't know why they won't grant us ALL that.

From: Marcel Monday, July 19, 05:42AM

Two points. 1. No one can 'force RP on us.' This is an RP mud. Supposedly, when we begin to play here, we are agreeing to role-play. Now, it doesn't bother me at all that some people do not care to role- play. The mud is theoretically large enough to cater to several tastes. However, we have to acknowledge the forum we're in, and that is an RP mud, like it or not. 2. If a pkill clan ever gets imp'ed, God forbid, be sure I at least will never turn it on - and in case you are wondering, I am pkill enabled. I see absolutely no reason to separate the two 'styles' of playing even further than they are already. The next logical step, then, would be to create two entirely separate muds. I do not understand the strong opposal to a zip string as a prize - but then, I guess I don't have to. If it'd really rock someone's boat to fight over a stat item instead of a zip string, no problem with me. Personally I think it'd merely encourage jumping and looting to an extent we don't need - but heck, if that's what makes the big audience happy... Marcel Alexander, Esquire.

From: Marcel Monday, July 19, 05:45AM

Blech, a pkill CHANNEL, not a pkill clan. Somebody get me coffee.

From: Kildare Monday, July 19, 06:15AM

I also don't think Infidel should be allowed to call people names just because they aren't pkill enabled. He can suggest anything he likes, however crazy and stupid it is, he's fully entitled to do that, no problem with me. I have every confidence the immort stuff won't let unreasonable suggestions go through. However, he has no right -whatsoever- and should not be allowed to to call non-enabled people names just because they don't agree with him. I would be the last to discourage people from a serious discussion of any topic, but calling people names and throwing insults at them doesn't enter into that category, not in my book anyway. Kildare

From: Infidel Monday, July 19, 06:45AM

Sorry but stupidity annoys the hell out of me and I can only handle so much before FLIPPING OUT! Anyways, where does it say this is an RP MUD? If I had known this I may have realised sooner that there would be little development in areas most keen pkillers are interested in and would have moved on. Zip strings are out of the question.

From: Harun Monday, July 19, 07:06AM

If stupidity annoys you Infidel then maybe you should refrain from making stupid remarks :P However, that's your problem. What -I- wanted to say is that we are NOT your pain in the etc, etc Infidel. This is -not- a pkill Mud. Pkill is an -option-. Just an -option-, no more, no less. Just as RP is for that matter. So nooone does or ever will force RP on you, you needn't worry However, don't expect respect from me if you aren't prepared to show me respect. And you won't do that by referring to everything said here as stupidity. So everyone who's opinions differ in the slightiest from yours is stupid, huh? It's a pretty interesting way of argueing, in fact more amusing than annoying, but it will get you nowhere. As long as you don't understand that disagreeing with you doesn't make other people stupid, you won't be even worthy of counducting a serious discussion. Harun-ar-Rashid

From: Infidel Monday, July 19, 07:36AM

I'm just sick of knowing I'm right about certain things yet petty insignificant things are continually being brought up stopping anything from being achieved. It's as if you don't even consider weighing up the good vs bad aspects and so far not one thing has been brought up that should stop this being implemented. Marcel also said he wouldn't use a pk channel, did anyone say it would be compulsary? I see it as a way to move OOC comments from the main channels, like.. "If only I had priority!", and hopefully the insults etc that go along with being killed in an unfair manner. Sure some may prefer to use info or chat still to save face or whatever on occasions but overall it would be well worth it. This is why I'm labelling it stupidity, it's as if I have to spell it all out, but then maybe it's just laziness, not bothering to think before posting. Either way it's annoying.

From: Fraegis Monday, July 19, 08:55AM

Well, Infidel, since stupidity ticks you off, you better stop reading your own posts. Where is the problem with a zip string? "That is not acceptable". Well, you just want some kind of bonus. Where is the aspect, as you call it, that makes it nessecary for you to only want to get something if it contains a bonus? Are you so much lacking any motivation or drive, that everything not worth some bonus just sucks? I am glad many here don't feel that way. 5k pr day for the ownership of a town, you say would be fair. Why? You whine about noone presenting arguments, yet your only argument is "A zip string is just not acceptable". Maybe you need a little time to think through whether you want arguments or not, and then do as you prefer others do. What if I suggested that every non-pkill should get a +6 dam/hit item, 0 rent, because "they need a bonus, since they don't parttake in the fun of pkill. This item is a small compensation". I have the idea you would jump up and down until you were blue in your face, screaming about "UNFAIR!!".

From: Infidel Monday, July 19, 10:03AM

Bah, you're an idiot.. a zip string isn't acceptable because it ONLY caters to the RP'ers. It is in no way an incentive for anyone to risk death over. I thought that was freaking obvious!

From: Georgina Monday, July 19, 11:00AM

What about this suggestion: A GM banner is given to each GM. It has NO stat bonus, so that it does not give an unfair advantage. What it does give is the prestige (no, not score type prestige) of looting another clan for it's war banner, a way of proving that you were able to beat someone up. (yes I know, it sounds like a zip string to me too, but since Infidel is so adamantly opposed to zip strings ....) Georgina Fitzwilliam

From: Amadio Monday, July 19, 05:27PM

I wasn't going to get involved in this, but I just can't help it. No, this is not an RP mud per se. Nor is it a PK mud. Both of those styles are encompassed within Legend's ever lovin' digital bounds. Hrm, maybe I should have prefaced this by saying that I've had five previous pkillers, belonged to three clans, and am working on a sixt pkiller. Anyway, as I understand it, pkill is an option on Legend, not a right. And rather than Pkill and RP being two distinct entities, the orginal idea was to have a synthesis of the two. Now, it's pretty obvious that that idea wasn't achieved. However, I don't see any reason for anyone, mortal or immortal, to consciously attempt to separate them further. To be blunt, like it or no, Legend isn't primarily geared towards pk. I don't know where other folks found this mud, but I found it on mudconnector, and nowhere in the description does it say that Legend is a PK mud. To ask for pk-specific in-game bonuses, such as an item that boosts hit and dam, like Infidel suggested, would be favoritism, plain and simple. It gives an unfair advantage to one group of players simply because they are pkill enabled. And I really hope that something like that never gets implemented. flame on if it would make you feel better.

From: Infidel Tuesday, July 20, 02:05AM

The original suggestion may have given a slight advantage to pk characters in mob kill but then I don't see anyone obtaining such an item until they're done with mob killing. I don't know anyone that's clanned who regularly kills mobs apart from those who're planning on retiring and there's no way you'd want something desirable such as that if your intention is to gain xp. Despite this I suggested another which would give no advantage at all to pk enabled being 5k/town ownership. Most clans house rental would be 15k+/day as mine is. You'd need 3 to break even IF those holding them are on at the time housing rent was deducted. You also shouldn't forget that clan accounts aren't accessable for anything but housing. Then there's the bonus that those willing to participate will be targetted first instead of those just wanting to level and those who aren't keen on pkilling for whatever reason. In turn I think it'd encourage RP and create a better atmosphere with a reduction in senseless random pkill that only part of the pk community enjoy.

From: Akai_Hayate Tuesday, July 20, 02:35AM

i think theres plenty of freakin rp in pkill as is too much if you ask me too many non pkill RP people are freakin elitest's "you call that an RP" "thats stupid" "just an exscuse to randomly pkill" blah blah blah and you RP freaks get tokens and coupons, speaking as a pkiller who fears Rp i cant get them you could say "rp and get some then dope!" but then again couldnt you enable and get a +stat banner like infidel suggested? sooo um yeah i dont punctuate so i hope this post was clear...

From: Skar Tuesday, July 20, 09:22AM

I have a comment regarding Georgina's suggestion -- a GM banner that is essentially a zip item. Once upon a time, the Hermetic clan had a ring they called the Hermetic Seal. It was a string that was restrung to one of the GM's ring when they took office. (This was even before restrings were allowed to every- one, even.) It was a pretty nifty thing, and all the GMs were proud to carry the seal, but on the occasion when it was looted, it was very difficult to retrieve. The looter would hide in safe rooms, or stay rented, refusing to give the clan fair opportunity to take back what was theirs. Essentially, anybody can take such an item and short-circuit its inten- ded use just by making themselves unavailable. This has a detrimental effect on clan morale and pkill satisfaction.

From: Tarn Tuesday, July 20, 09:49PM

Infidel said 'I don't know anyone that's clanned who regularly kills mobs apart from those who're planning on retiring'. Well, as someone not clanned, I often run with pkillers. I see quite a few pkillers mobkilling. They may be wanting to build up their bank accounts, and that takes mobkill, they may be needing to replace eq, or it may be a re-eq or CR, or they may be doing it to socialise with the non-pk community. There are many reasons why pk-enabled chars kill mobs, and I see pk-enabled chars killing mobs every single time I log on. Skar's comments about Georgina's zip string idea apply equally well to an item with hit/dam bonus too. Someone could steal or loot the hit/dam item and hide or stay rented, refusing to give the clan fair opportunity to take back what was theirs. Skar summed it up by saying 'this has a detrimental effect on clan morale and pkill satisfaction.' Infidel's idea also gives an advantage to those who are in a clan. I may be wrong here (and please feel free to correct me if I am), but it was my understanding that not every pk enabled char chooses to be in a clan. My reading of the way Infidel initially presented this idea gives no convincing arguments of why the item needs to have some sort of bonus on it, and personally I don't see why such an item should have a bonus on it. Perhaps you could explain why it needs to be +dam? Because I don't understand why it needs to be, but as Infidel is so definite that a zip string is not satisfactory, I'm confident there is some reason (apart from the idea of giving one section of the Legend community an unfair advantage). Tarn

From: Infidel Wednesday, July 21, 12:28AM

Ok, well that's news to me.. nobody I know that's clanned regularly kills mobs.. That makes the argument regarding +hit/+dam a valid one yet that still doesn't rule out other such things that don't benefit you in mob kill. I know other MUDs would take up such things and just consider it 'a benefit of being clanned' but anyway... As for rogues being disadvantaged, town ownership does little but pay the rent.. I don't think anyone would choose to join a clan based on what benefits the items give but for the scenarios it would create and if you really think it's an issue, rogues could just as easily be taken into consideration. The money gained from ownership could be capped at the value of your housing rental so ones personal account could be used if not part of a clan. I'm not going to explain why a zip string would be pointless again. You should read the whole thread before posting.

From: Tarn Wednesday, July 21, 01:18AM

I have just, as was suggested so politely, re-read the whole thread. My apologies if I quote too much here. Append 2 (Infidel)- the point of it being hit/dam is that the target wouldn't suffer messed up stats if/when its taken from them. The same goes for a zip string. append 11 by Infidel - zip strings are out of the question. No explanation given. Append 15 by Infidel - a zip string isn't acceptable because it ONLY caters to the RP'ers. I think Georgina provided a counter-argument to that in append 16 when she pointed out that it gives the prestige of looting another clan for its war banner, and a way of proving that you were able to beat someone up. I note that Infidel has not yet provided a counter-argument to that. Append 22 by Infidel - if no one you know regularly kills mobs, I wonder how your clan pays its rent, how pk-ers recover from xploss due to being multi-ed or losing too many fights, and how pk-ers replace eq that has been trashed in fights. This append then goes on to suggest (I think, its not clear) that rogues be taken into consideration. Does that mean that every clan and every house owner gets into this town ownership deal? I don't think there would be enough towns/areas to go around. The main objection to the zip string idea is that forces people to RP, and Georgina has already pointed out that it doesn't. As I said in my previous post, I have yet to see a convincing argument as to why an item would need to be +hit/dam. I don't usually quote on this board, once again my apologies. Tarn

From: Infidel Wednesday, July 21, 01:43AM

God, I already said it needn't be +hit/dam.. I give up, you're just pissing me off.. I'm just amazed how people can be content with this empty shell of a MUD in comparison with what's provided elsewhere, artifacts, kingdoms gold held in halls with hired mobs to guard it etc etc. I'd be willing to give up 10 stats and 6 hit/dam on clanning just so there'd be no complaints of being at an advantage, you're just being selfish, not willing to give an inch nor provide some alternate suggestions apart from 'string zip'. I find it ridiculous that we must create games within a game such as trivia or having to RP something because the MUD doesn't provide much at all in itself besides varied character types. I went with the +hit/dam thing originally as it wouldn't require extra coding.. We need a reason to pk, people we pk are always wanting a reason and you can't expect people to RP just as an excuse to pk. Some get upset about being killed for no reason, some want to RP pkill ONLY, some want to level or retire and you're never going to satisfy all relying on the consideration and generosity of bored pkillers. I offered one way to seperate willing pk participants from the rest. It may not be the answer but you're not helping one bit by knocking it without providing a feasible alternative.

From: Stewart Wednesday, July 21, 02:58AM

oh just to let all you "pkill is evil, burn the pkillers!" people know, there are plenty of advangatages unenabled players get in mobkill. Take this situation for example a sl run goes bad the tank dies party members are dying left and right what do you do? if your unenabled you go ooc and wait for cr or auto rent if your a pkiller.... you die. now many people will say something like "you knew see what i'm saying here? i could list others but i think you get the point Stewart

From: Stewart Wednesday, July 21, 03:05AM

bah, i smeged up that post, ignore the following line in it now many people will say something like "you knew but i got an excuse, it's late and i got no coffee ;) sooo yeah. Stewart

From: Infidel Wednesday, July 21, 02:49AM

BTW, in response to Tarn.. (for the last time). I thought Georgina's was an argument against the string zip suggestion.. Anyway, for one a zip can't be worn so you'd have to kill everyone you see to find it.. Secondly, without gaining anything by wearing it you could hide it in some unknown house or just stay rented with it. I still go by what I said earlier, I kill mobs only to switch equipment, you'd need to be multi'd like 30 times or more b4 needing to worry about xp and if you want xp you won't want to be holding something people will kill for. My clans account has mostly been taken care of by me permakilling myself every month or so.. I don't know how but I usually have around 500k without really trying to make money. This is all besides the point however, not only because a little +hit/dam would hardly make a difference but that its already been discounted as an option. As for the rogue thing, only the GMs of clans would recieve deeds at the start, if you're rogue you have to kill for it. If you think that's unfair, you're really being petty IMO. That's it.. I've had enough of going through every little detail just because someone doesn't get it. I've wasted enough time.

From: Infidel Wednesday, July 21, 03:47AM

Oh yeah, I'm still curious as to what unclanned wouldn't consider an unfair advantage. A banner with its own slot that gives the wearer see invis? There aren't a whole lot of places unclanned would benefit from it and even then it's only a convenience. Something that doesn't require extra coding would be a whole lot more likely to be accepted. Even more likely if somebody other than me suggests it. -poke Fatale-

From: Tarn Wednesday, July 21, 04:02AM

I have just re-read the whole thread (again), and I'm afraid I still can't see the post where Infidel said it needn't be hit/dam. My apologies to you, Infidel for missing it. If you are now proposing an item that does not give the wearer any bonus whatsoever, than I have no objection, and you can ignore my last two posts entirely, because when I wrote them it was my understanding that you were suggesting an item with some kind of bonus for the wearer. btw Stewart, I am not a "pkill is evil, burn the pkillers" person. Some of my best friends on this mud are pk'ers, and I have been on a LOT of mobkilling runs with pk'ers. I only raise my voice in objection when I see something suggested that might give pk'ers an advantage over non-enabled chars, or when "pk issues" have an effect on those of us who choose (and yes, it is a choice) not to enable. Tarn (who wishes she could make 500K cash without regular mobkill.)

From: Amadio Wednesday, July 21, 06:35AM

Hmm, here's a novel idea that I'm surprised no one's posted yet. Infidel, when you want people to agree with you, being a jerk to them doesn't work real well! I haven't seen anyone be anything less than completely polite to you, and just because they don't agree with you, you go psycho on them. Good luck getting anyone to go along with you now. And if you're so damn dissatisfied with our "empty shell of a mud" and everywhere else is so great, (another novel thought, I know) why don't you, um, leave? Wouldn't that seem to make sense? Man, I really am surprised no one's said this yet, people are usually less tolerant of stupidity around here.

From: Infidel Wednesday, July 21, 07:16AM

It had nothing to do with them not agreeing with me but that the points made were as ridiculous as yours. I feel I have to respond anyway and that really gets on my nerves. Either try to be constructive or shut the hell up. Saying "If you don't like it, leave" is just damn typical of people like you.. You can't even work out for yourself that when someone suggests things that originate from other MUDs that they might consider this to be a better MUD overall and be worth the effort in trying to get such features implemented where they'd rather spend their time.

From: Fraegis Wednesday, July 21, 08:04AM

"If you don't like it, then leave" is a quite normal reply when you write that this mud is an empty shell, and nothing compared to others. We didn't ask you to leave, you stated that this mud was worth nothing. So by all means, I agree with whoever asked why you don't leave. You ask people to be constructive. Try to be it yourself. Your only argument against a zip string is that "Noone will want it", and "it can't be held". Wrong on both accounts. I have seen people argue lots over zip strings, and zip strings can be held. Since both your arguments are now proved wrong, will you then accept the zip string? I am glad if you do, but I doubt it. You just want an extra bonus. You say you don't post much anymore, and if your other posts are like this one, I am glad to hear you stopped. When asked to come with some arguments, your first reply was "You are an idiot." That doesn't indicate your desire for arguments, quite contrary. And Tarn, he didn't require the +6 bonus item, he would also settle for something that gave 5k or so pr day to the clan. He didn't say he would go for anything without any bonus.

From: Tarn Wednesday, July 21, 08:24AM

It's a shame that he won't go for something without a bonus. Because I don't think the non-pk'ers or the rogues pk'ers are going to be happy with something with a bonus. Perhaps he could hold to the rest of the idea, of some sort of item that is worth killing for (for the kudos of beating someone), but which has no bonus attached to it, so that it does not unfairly disadvantage others. I have heard the argument that the bonus wont give much of an advantage anyway, so keep the bonus. If it wont give much of an advantage why bother even putting a bonus on it? I think this is the bone of contention in this issue. No one is objecting to some kind of war banner or insignia, what people are objecting to is the issue of a bonus attached to it. Unless Infidel can address this objection to the satisfaction of others, I really don't think this idea will go far. And insulting people who don't like the idea of a bonus is not addressing the objection, or helping to make what is a potentially good idea work. Tarn

From: StrongDruid Wednesday, July 21, 08:35AM

Amadio, noone is argueing much becuase there is no point in argueing. Just look at the reply you got to your append. 1. People don't agree with Infidel, so of course their arguments are by default stupid and ridiculous :P Only Infidel knows the only truth and only he's allowed to express his views, because... 2. "either be constructive or shut up" :P So once again, since you don't agree with Infidel Amadio, your opinion is worthless and you are stupid by definition :P At least these are Infidel's reactions to anyone who disagrees with him :P "You're an idiot" :P "Shut up" etc, etc That's why noone argues Amadio. What is the point? Noone really cares anymore. Finally, if I thought this mud is just an empty shell and everyone who happens to disagree -gasp- is an idiot an all their arguments by default are ridiculous, I would most definitely leave :P

From: Infidel Wednesday, July 21, 08:35AM

Ok this's the 3rd time on this thread I've had to address "what's wrong with a zip" and the last time damnit. The item needs to be beneficial to the wearer to satisfy those other than RP'ers.. It should be worth risking death over and it needs to be worn else everyone's gonna get killed by people searching for it. It also needs to be beneficial to the wearer so the item isn't stored in a fashion for it be out of reach. BTW, people need only go back one append Fraegis so misquoting me is only going to make YOU look bad.

From: Tarn Wednesday, July 21, 09:00AM

OK, I give up. I tried pointing out that the objection is based on it having an advantage that applies to one section of the mud community (and not even to the rogue pk'ers). That is the main objection, and it has finally sunken into my thick skull that is exactly what Infidel is after, an item that unfairly advantages only those who are pk-enabled AND in a clan. Looks like Infidel is trying to force the rogues to join clans (in much the same way he objects to being forced to RP). Tarn (still wanting to know how to make 500K cash without regular mobkilling)

From: Infidel Wednesday, July 21, 09:15AM

I'm trying so hard not to insult Tarn.. in fact, I won't comment. I'll just satisfy her curiousity about the money I tend to make without trying.. Sell the occasional coupon, sell leftover seonis, sell hard to obtain items when switching around eq and tadaaa. Money for a lifetime supply of beer'n pizza..

From: LadyAce Wednesday, July 21, 10:56AM

- I'm not very interested in giving certain players +stat items of any sort in order to encourage RP, or 'Pk with a real ic reason' (which is RP, even if you don't want to admit it. Maybe not bigtime melodramatic RP, but RP nonethless.) - I think you can hold zip, actually, and since some people have plenty of fun fighting/living/dying over bits of zip (because it's the idea of the thing that is powerful) -- it can't be such a bad idea. If you use the name of the clan or an individual, then the zip can't be just made 'for free' by anyone, it takes permission from the clan/individual, so at least that makes access controlled and the item more meaningful. - The point about having to kill everyone to find the item, is a good point, but then again, there's peek, and there's also the fact that if you've got willing participants in this game, they are not likely to be shy about the fact that they're carrying their banner around. - Here's an idea, a compromise (which admittedly requires much more compromise on your part than mine!) of sorts between the concerns of the various people who posted above. What about aux wearslotted items? I'll have to check with others on the staff to be certain that this is a reasonable idea, but what if we strung up an aux item for your clan or even for each member of your clan? It would not be restringable, perhaps we'd make the item timed/no-preserve/no-rent to give a start/end point to the scenario. Then on the appointed day, we could have a general scramble for the items, with a bit of killing and invading and stealing and defending for those involved. In fact, if we made a way for this to be open to everyone who is enabled, I'd be willing to give prizes for the thing, to those able to keep their banners and or those who manage to obtain the banners of others. Wouldn't need to be a banner, I suppose we could make it an insignia or something similar, to fit with the wide variety of clans we have. Before anyone objects that this is for pkillers only, let me remind you that since it's pk'ers only, that means it is one character per person -- and you can choose to enable and play along. This is my idea, I haven't talked to anyone about it and so I can't promise that it will happen. It's something a little new and a little different, it does some of the things that Infidel was looking for, it responds to some of the objections that other players came up with. Please append with your thoughts. -LA

From: Akai_Hayate Thursday, July 22, 12:24AM

well first off id like to say im a little pissed nobody even responded to what i said from the point of an evil insane multing pkiller, it was true.. second, Amadio said hes seen nobody be anything but polite just because they use allmost no harsh words in saying his idea is stupid doesnt hide that you all said it but then again maybe i missed the point huh? i'd also like to say how digusted i am that you selfish people cant give out like 8(?) stupid +dam banners to pkill gm's they take a big risk enabling, yes they knew when they did but why is it so unreasonable that they get a little (hardly any!) extra freaking defense against kill happy freaks like me? untill i see mobs with all sorts of spells/skills running from town to town seeing how many infos they can get on players, the regular mud will not be as hard as pkill well ive lost my train of thoughts and people are yapping soo just to forstall pointless arguments after me post (if people even acknowledge me this time) Amadio.......YOU CALLED HIM STUPID TOO, get off your freakin high horse your just as bad. oh yeah and about zip strings who gives a crap? i can really see myself trying to murder aginor gaidal dusk or rictor for a stupid non stat item -eyeroll- not to say zip strings or strings are bad but, wtf would i want with rictors woggle? or some other crap like that Mercs broken screen door maybe since its a clan string? bah pointless! and since when you kill a GM the whole freakin clan gets pissed a zip string isnt freaking worth it, god, stop being so damn greedy talking about a lil dam, acually infidel said not even that soo whats the freakin problem? Whichever freaking character im on--Not very eloquent

From: Sandra Thursday, July 22, 02:49AM

From Akai's post: untill i see mobs with all sorts of spells/skills running from town to town seeing how many infos they can get on players, the regular mud will not be as hard as pkill I can arrange that. ;) In regards to the rest of the discussion, so that you all know, I'm not ignoring the discussion, I'm reading every post. Most, if not all, of my concerns have been stated very well by LadyAce, so I feel no need to repeat them. -Sandra

From: Amadio Thursday, July 22, 06:51AM

You're right, Akai, I did say he was being stupid. It's also true that I was the first one, and someone needed to. He was being demanding, abusive, and insulting. I'd personally rather be abusive and insulting right back rather than saying "yessir, you're right, I'm wrong, the mud is an empty shell, there's nothing here for pkillers." The distinction I make (or maybe I'm just rationalizing, who knows) is that he was abusive and insulting to people that were being polite and trying to work with him. So, I wouldn't make a good diplomat, but hey, I've got a high-stress job and being abusive to silly people is a good stress release. And now you're being stupid too! Whee! More fun!

From: Diamond Thursday, July 22, 08:31AM

Well said, Amadio. Diamond

From: Infidel Thursday, July 22, 08:40AM

Actually they were doing quite the opposite of 'working with me' which is why the insults came about in the first place.


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