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Posted by Darkheart on 07/28

Whee, got sick of reading all the backposts, and having read the past 20, think i get the picture... it's the same old argument between those that think pk is 'out of hand' and should be 'rp'd and controlled' and tho that wish for more carefree pk environment, one in which people can seriously just enjoy pk. hence we had many suggestions, such as reducing xp loss per death, blah blah blah, retirement system independent of xp, etc etc. the bottom line is that this isn't a pk-only mud, so code changes affecting the pk community 'only' will have low priority unless it's a serious problem, such as one stat being overpowered (even then it takes forever). I guess my point is that although it may seem a change that'll only affect the pk community, anything that livens up and relaxes (reduces stress and frustration) the pk community will essentially liven up the entire community and help break down the current separation of pk and rp hostility. personally i believe that no xp-loss in pk is a good point in which to start. multi's then will be much more easily classifiable into offenses (harassment, since it has 0 in-game effectiveness), and of course, punishment should be dealt swiftly upon violation. not losing xp, the pk scene will shift a lot, not necessarily to the free killing spree most people think it may result in. but since that's a tad bit too far into the unknown, an 'incentive' and 'reasoning' system is in order. i personally think 'zoning' is a good idea, sectioning legend into mini-areas that can be 'claimed' by a clan, whose flag will be 'maintained' only when members of the clan are in the area for at least a certain period of time, reclaimable by others if their stay exceeds the other clan's stay. of course, maintenance should have benefits, which will be a clan income, or exemption of housing if clanhall is located within that area. hell, we could have part of the housing costs unlock u open u that area to go to the clan, even. of course this will be a helluva lot of code, but if a clan wants a lot of 'action', it can simply try to claim as many areas as possible, and simply 'deal with' trespassers. those who don't want action will have to lead a slightly complicated life, or will simply have to try to outsmart those that wait in ambush. heh, and that will also reduce conflicts in other areas if the clan is spread too thin... the other way is to have a clan xp system. a clan should be allowed to level according to the amount of pk-xp accumulated by its members, and a clan with more xp should be allowed more members, at the very least, and have additional benefits. these things will put rogues at a disadvantage, but if rogues are allowed to sell 'pk-points' to clans, that could make room for som really interesting mercenary work. dh

From: Chimera Thursday, July 22, 01:37PM

I don't buy your 'multi's will go away if there's no xp loss in pkill' as long as Xp is still rewarded to the winner. A 0 XP loss system with an xp reward in it would just be a way to abuse the system (join a clan at level 10, have your gm get beat up, have him/her turn death announce off, and kill him til you're 50). I like the idea of the clan xp system more than the 'sectioning the mud into conquerable mini-areas.' If I had an area that I had built here I don't think I'd want it 'sectioned'. However I don't see that the clan xp system and the 0 xp loss in pkill work hand in hand (as demonstrated by my post above... I can see a clan having a 'scapegoat' character with an autologin, anndeath off, and a dedicated line who just sits in their clanhall all day and lets people beat on him for "clan XP" so that the whole clan can get more benefits) Okay, I'm done giving you people bad ideas. =p Chimera

From: Orphen Friday, July 23, 05:29PM

Thought you were in the military..

From: Ton Saturday, July 24, 10:20AM

Well not sure I like the zoning idea either, but the clan xp thing sounds interesting. I have to agree with DH here and disagree with Chim. I think if there is a 0xp loss for pk death, the result will not be multi-city. Well perhaps I should expand on that. Basically I like the idea of multi == harassment. Understandable if you pretype and are lagged, and do it once accidentally, but beyond that it would serve no purpose, and is really unnecessary. Furthurmore, in regard to pk xp. If the problem is that there would be no xp loss from death, and xp gained from winning, do away with the xp from winning. Because in all honestly, I think that recieving no more than 20k xp for a pk win is laughable. For the diffiulty in winning same level fights consistantly, the reward should be much greater. Maybe xp from pkill could be based on damage you took, damage you dealt, length of fight, etc. So that those close matches earned more xp. Ok, off topic a little. I think many would agree that xp gain from pk is really nothing though, and if it was a problem, the xp gain could be yanked without too many complaints from the pk community. (providing that it meant some other changes, like reduced xp loss from death) Ton

From: Infidel Saturday, July 24, 01:41PM

I think there'd be more multi but then, would the victim care?

From: Vampyr Saturday, July 24, 07:54PM

I think that 0 xp from pkill deaths is stupid, people would multi just for the sake of stopping the opponent from levelling, they can be just as mean when an xp loss isn't in question, and will have an excuse... well you didn't lose xp, why do you care?

From: Ton Sunday, July 25, 12:19AM

Simply make multi beyond 1 time illegal and punishable as harassment. I think that was allready stated a couple of times.

From: Kaeos Sunday, July 25, 12:26AM

You could also make a timer on the person that just died. He or she that just died could have a 3 tick timer placed on him/her. During the life of that timer, he or she cannot pkill or be pkilled. This will allow for no multi's. Kaeos

From: Love Sunday, July 25, 01:10AM

I like the 0 xp for pk win, as well as 0 xp for pk death idea a lot. I think it's a good point that multi can then easily be told to be harrassment or not, since there'd be no point to it OTHER than harrassment discounting the odd pretype. The other idea I also really like is the one based on how much damage dealt, received, etc etc. Though I think that's probably a lot more coding I do think that the 0 xp thing would lead to a better pk environment, sinc levelling off pk is cool, but really, I don't -think- xp is the main reason why most people pk. I know it isn't why I pk. Just my two cents. LooooooOOooooove

From: Ton Monday, July 26, 01:15AM

There is also the possibility as mentioned of a simple timer. Doesn't have to be very long, I'd say 3 ticks is enough to get to your corpse, get your stuff, and run. I'd say that most people pk, and try to win at pk for their own personal pride, and to see their name on info. Its one of the most effective ways to brag about yourself really. Certainly if xp wasn't an issue, people would be less stressed about losing, and I think you'd see a lot more sportsmanship between characters, and also a lot less whining, accusing, and PO'd people. Ton

From: Darkheart Wednesday, July 28, 11:13AM

the main thing about xp loss being 0 is not that it will stop multi, but that it will take out a great chunk of 'in-game' motivation to do so -- perma, threat of perma, levelling, etc. all that's left when you take out the above in-game motivation is simple harassing (of course, we'll still have those that come online and shoot their mouth off -- but then i think we should apply the harassment code to the 'recently deceased'). harassment is punishable, and once we all agree (or rather, some/most of us agree) that multi has no in-game function but is only harrassment, things will be easier to iron out. personally, however, i don't see multi and such as a big deal, those have always been dealt with by the rest of the pk populace. what i want to get rid of is those that feel 'victimized' a tad bit TOO much (those sensitive folk) upon a 'random' kill. sure a death will still mean some healing and a break from what you were doing then and there, but that was the cost of enabling, no? dh

From: Darkheart Wednesday, July 28, 11:43AM

Further on the sectioning: i'm not suggesting we section the mud into pk and nonpk, but having sections that can be logically 'taken' or 'conquered.' Anything that has enough incentive for clans (pk or nonpk, even) to invest time in. Purpose is to have prize areas that are worth fighting over, or holding onto, so that clans can be 'bound' by their own search for profit. Of course, money has to do a lot of good, or clan halls be made rather nifty, or have other features as 'friendship' within the town, etc. Clan xp can also be more of a 'thematic' thing than actual xps. It could be gained by hours logged by clan members, given as rp prize, or anything else that could deserve merit and stuff. Doesn't necessarily have to be bound to pk xp. Another something that could 'bind' pkers into doing something other than random jumping, IF the profit is great enough. heck, if xploss is 0, then it's actually very very likely that clans will end up being a group of players who like to kill each other, as opposed to other people. me, personally, would more than love to keep fighting dune and infidel if there's no silly xp thing involved, just for kicks, to try out new things... dh


1999 Topic Index