Discussion Index


1999 Topic Index

Posted by Chaykin on 09/03

First of all, anyone who can, with a straight face, insist that there is nothing wrong with the pkill system as it stands now is delusional. Then again, taking note that a healthy portion of the players who are adamantly against PKOK are the a-holes Barabas mentioned, maybe that's not too far off the mark. :P Seriously though, the mere fact that there is so much debate over PKOK proves that a lot of people aren't happy. And I've been listening to whispers of discontent for three years, which only in the past year or so have risen (consistently) above a whisper. Some people have raised valid concerns about PKOK, which is why I think the discussion that's going on now (probably one of the most constructive I can remember about a change like this -applaud-) is great. One of the good points I saw made a few times was about the loss of that excitement over being jumped suddenly. But the thing is, as I understand PKOK (maybe I'm wrong) you CAN have that if you want it, with PKOK ALL. The point is, some people don't want it, and this new code gives them the _option_ of not having to get jumped. The hardcore guys can all PKOK ALL and for them, things will be exactly as they are; they can jump each other until their daggers break from the stress. I for one think it's worth a try. -Chay

From: Darkheart Friday, September 03, 12:33AM

The trouble with pkok is that anyone is open to use and abuse pkok. There's no imm involved in enabling a character, and there's no effort and time involved in de-enabling a character. Sure it sounds great for those of you used not to taking responsibility for your past decisions, and i do agree that for some the past mistake is one fairly tough to recover from. However, if anything you did was as easily backout-able, why not make this game like any other RPGs that are geared toward ONE player, allowing you to save, commit an action, then reload if you don't like it? There is a good portion of this game that comes from committing actions that aren't easy to back out from. Some actions are hardcoded, some actions just burn in others' minds. To eliminate such consequences for something as significant as a decision to "KILL another PLAYER" i think the current pk system is valid. I am not denying that it isn't a user-friendly environment, but in the game of mobkill, things are worse. There are agg mobs that will multi you for sure if you re-enter, there are DTs that will loot every single item without even giving you a chance to get them back, and there are mobs that wolfpack you. And just as in mobkill, you can stay out of all that even in pkill. Inste of simply deciding where not to go or where to go physically, you just have to watch where your words go, and what kind of actions to take. Besides, if all else fails, do what you would do if the same thing happened against a mob. Make a CR group, make a wolfpack and get it back. If you have been acting righteously and wisely, there will be people there to help you. Darkheart Harkzael

From: Deathangel Friday, September 03, 06:14AM

The whispers/voices of discontenet have always been around and will always be around.. the ebb and flow like the tide.. no matter what is done, there will be poeple who don't like it... and as I've said time and again, no the current system isn't perfect, but I firmly believe the pkok system is a much worse answer.. and because I do I'm labeled an (expletive deleted)? Well I'm not someone who enjoys being jumped and jumping all the time, Im not some evildoer who enjoys 'ruining everyon elses fun' what I am is a mediocre pker wh has been multi'd and wolfpacke . Did I run screaming? no do I cry and whine because 'player y' cheated? no, because he didn't.. as DH has repeatedly said the underlying fact of PK is responsibilty.. You must be prepared to take responsibility for your own actions, until you can, you have no business getting involved in pk.. pkok would remove any responsibility or repercussions from everything you do.. Everyone keeps saying you can pkok all and get the effect you desire of a free-for all.. no, you can't there are several 'players' who will hide behind the pkok mask jump out, attack one of the so called 'aholes' possibly multi and looting them then hide behind the mask and avoid any concrete consequences for their actions.. and people who say that this won't happen.. quit deluding yourself, it will.. a lot of these big mean pkers may play bastards, but at least they're honest about it And I won't even get too far into the xplay aspect of it.. that's a can of worm's I'm going to touch only lightly in passing.. if pkok becomes a reality you'd might as well rip out all the rules given about xplay they're going to be ignored anyway.. how do you propose to stop someone from jumping someone else with all his alts when he decides he has a grudg

From: Barabas Friday, September 03, 09:01AM

For the record, I don't think everyone that disagrees with pkok is an asshole. Nor did I say that in my previous post. What I do think is that pkok could be fun, and without all the charts and numbers that Darkheart has proposed. Will there be problems to work out? Yeah of course there will.. But to address the constant point of "If you pkill you will be multi/looted/wolfpacked so just deal with it." That's crap.. sure those things happen but I really doubt it was the intention of pkill to have some ass sitting in the inn kicking your head in every time you entered the game at 1 hp. What a challenge, eh? And yes, you are responsible for your actions now and will be in the new system. As long as there is a way to exclude someone in whatever pkok list is put in place, you can enable all and then exclude whatever person or groups have shown bad manners in the past. Is that so bad? Yes it is more artifical and I'm sad to see that the old way of pkill hasn't worked but it hasn't. Pkill isn't anywhere as popular as it used to be. And that's not a code thing.. I don't blame people like DH or Dune, in fact I respect those guys since they don't multi or wolf unless their opponent goes there first. But the fact is, something needs to change. Barabas BoneCrusher

From: LadyAce Friday, September 03, 09:44AM

I'm not sure why Darkheart says in his post that there will be no imm involvement in enabling. Not only is the policy for this system not set, it was my impression that we would still be enabling people by hand and individually. While it's likely to be a bit of work, I think it's necessary in order to explain the rules. Yes, there's an increased risk of xplay, but there's also a proportional increase in responsibility for one's own actions. Unlike what is said above, I most definitely think that the system increases your accountability for your actions. Your reputation becomes vital to your fun. Somewhere along the line, I think players lost a measure of trust for each other that they'd had previously. All attempts to change the environment through social means have essentially failed, with every side blaming every other side. I know that you've said that generally RP'ers are left alone, and the 'pk just for fun' crowd stays within its own boundaries. This doesn't always work, and this isn't even realistic. What makes you think that all RPers (or even all for-fun'ers) are purists in that fashion? After all, maybe that RP-style pker would like to do a bit of for-fun stuff now and then, but they know that once they enter that game, no one would let them out of it. And yet a middle ground, wherein each person treats the other with some consideration and respect, has not developed. Since PKOK will be only one of several 'set-on-the-fly' PK settings, maybe someday we'll all have changed such that we can toggle it back. Hard to say, really. At any rate, I hope to hear all of your comments after the actual policies are worked out and posted publically -- getting all worked up over how you think we might do things and how someone might abuse the system if we set things up according to your worst nightmare, is not really productive. -LA


1999 Topic Index