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Posted by Akai_Hayate on 09/10

what i propose is rp-ok

pretty simple, allmost like pkok

you choose who you can rp with.

and if someone is not okayed you wont see emotes, descs full descs or crappy chat rp

now some of you might be wondering if im on drugs at this point

the answer is, yes. but also i figure

if some militant ill-never-have-a-pkiller person can propose some horse's bottom idea that would essentially screw over my whole mud life, that i can propose a similer one for them and save myself from the pain of having to read pointless rp whining on info or chat

sooo, like yeah totally

From: Fear Thursday, September 09, 11:26AM

what a well thought out post! -comf-

regardless, it's true, very true.

people say, "I want nothing to do with you or your kind, so we should change pk altogether".

hrm, lets actually propose a change to RP. Hell, we could do many things to add life to rp.

here's an idea off the top of my head, lets siteban everyone who doesn't rp as well as Marcel. I mean, who cares if in all actuality they just suck at rp? who cares what they are used to?

and most importantly, who cares if they don't want an unecessary change?

oh wait, damn, I sound like the people promoting pkok.


From: DoctorBob Thursday, September 09, 11:33AM

way to go akai, your such a stud

another wonderful idea i totally support

pure genious

what i wouldnt give to be as cool as you man!

Doctorbob, Shameless crossplayer

From: Tritoch Thursday, September 09, 11:43AM

i think i speak for everyone when i say


From: Sandra Thursday, September 09, 11:40AM

Ok, gonna jump into 'Sandra the player' mode for a minute and say that first, this post is an extreme waste of space and time for anyone that has been suckered into reading it. Second, if I give you a quarter, will you buy a clue?

The proposed pkok code idea was something that the staff came up with because of the constant problems and complaints by pkillers on BOTH sides of the fence. As for the person that came up with the idea not being a pkiller, get that clue I mentioned earlier and get back to me.

Now that I've said that, I'll add that I still find it amusing to see all the complaints about something that's not worked out yet as though you know what it will be like. That is impossible.

All of the ideas posted regarding it have been read, will be considered, and may well already have been, but, I'll state it again for those that forgot their glasses, it's not done yet.

It's not completely worked out yet on the code side, nor on the policy side. Give it a rest, and wait til it goes in so that your complaints about what happens with it will be a little more valid, eh?

-Sandra, the grumpy builder person that's getting tired of these posts.

From: Marigold Thursday, September 09, 12:09PM


From: Brede Thursday, September 09, 02:52PM

The reason people are getting worried and complaining is quite simply beca use they (we) don't really know anything about it at all. There have been little if any official posts on the idea, and as a result everyone is all over the place in their thoughts as to what this is going to be. I wonder sometimes if the imms are trying to shock the playerbase into one simultanious heart attack with the way things are imp'd. :P Warning as well as info prior to implementation can go a long way.

One of the worst things I have seen in regards to info was the xp scale, I think that most morts felt completely left out of any decisions/input towards that change. Hence the constant complaints, even still, a year after the fact.

One of the best announced and discussed things prior to imping was the new clan system. (incl. housing) How many complaints have their been from morts about this since it was impd? No where near the same as the xp scale I'd bet.

My point is: this is not a difficult concept. Human beings are predictable as a group, and the community here is no different. Learn from what has and hasn't worked in the past, and repeat what seams to work.

Brede - Tired of big surprises

From: Danar Friday, September 10, 12:07AM

You people :b

Apparently I was the only person to see this, so I'll point it out again:

they can't tell you anything about yet, because they haven't decided yet.

You'd have more luck with a Magic 8-Ball, and you wouldn't have to listen to Akai.


From: LadyAce Friday, September 10, 09:21AM

The XP Scale is a much different issue than PKOK. In the case of the XP Scale, the code IS NOT subject to change. You could comment until you were blue in the face and we CAN NOT change it. What happened with the XP Scale is that political pressures within the imm staff forced us to put it in too early, and we've been scrambling to adjust ever since. Player input on the system is, and always has been, most valuable in the area of "this specific mob isn't worth enough/is worth too much XP."

In terms of notification, I'm not sure what you want. We've been discussing this system in vague terms for 6 months now, after I proposed it to the imm list and it seemed to go over well. You complain that there have been no authoritive posts -- that's because we brought you "in on it" early in the process. From the flak we're getting, it sure seems like you would have preferred to hear about it after it was set in stone because then you would have a clear picture of how it will go. And of course, I know from past experience that if we'd waited until the thing was set in stone before we let out one peep about the system, you would complain about us never soliciting player input.

You tell us to stick with what works, in terms of working You tell us to stick with what terms of co-operating with players and managing changes. And so I ask you, what works? I haven't seen anything work yet, and we've tried everything. Short of imming you all, we can't seem to please you.

We start talking with you about the idea within a few weeks of work on the project, and then all along as it's progressed and been developed. Of course, it was a purely informal discussion, it happened in Q & A sessions and over tells and chat -- it was an informal idea, in the development stage, too unformed to post formally or authoritatively about. And what thanks do we get for involving you in this development process? Tons and tons of hoopla and complaints about a system that's only beginning to take shape and substance. And half of the complaints are that we haven't posted anything formal, or that you're upset about some technical detail that hasn't even been decided!

If you want us to give you advance warning of ideas, and involve you in the process as they develop, then complaining that the ideas are not completely set in stone is NOT the way to go. And so I'll turn this round on you. Stick with what works, and learn from the past. A continual barrage of negativity from you makes us bitter, annoyed, and uninclined to do work around here. Going into hysterics because we tried to trust you and give you some more information about the future will just make us guard our plans more carefully. If you want to be part of the development process, stop complaining that we're still in the development process!

I love you all dearly, but this is really getting to be too much.


From: Fear Friday, September 10, 10:27AM

first, I'm sorry if I don't like the whole idea, but I don't.

I don't see the point in changing code for what I call "The Craven syndrome", there's nothing wrong with the code, it's the people who abuse it.

I'm sorry if I say there isn't an active administration staff to prevent people from multi/crossplay with this new system, but, there isn't.

I'm sorry if I think that this whole thing is simply the way a few select imms want to pk themselves, but I do think that.

I'm sorry if you all think I'm rude, but I am rude, if you keep an opinion about me because of that, then that is your preference.

current pkillers are told to deal with things, because that's the way pkill is and will always be, and now we're changing pkill for those who have never even done it, because they "don't want to be jumped".

we're constantly told that if we don't like the current system, we should play another mud, when -we- complain about something.. and now we're changing that system to suit people who don't even pkill.

through the 5 years I've played here, pkill has been up and down, there has been times that I HATED pkill, and there have been times that I loved it, and pkillers were very active indeed. And now as a die-hard pkiller, I'm being told my opinion on pkok doesn't matter, and frankly it gives me a rather huge attitude towards the immortal staff, all of them.

I can and do get along with all imms, but when 5 years of experience simply doesn't matter to the changes they make, something is seriously wrong.

pkok adds a few cool things to pk, granted. but what it takes away far outweighs what it gives. Never will snipers do well again, as if they actually do now. A sniper _THRIVES_ on jumping an unsuspecting victim, they simply can't win otherwise. Perhaps if the same immortals that propose this grand pkok idea actually pk'd in the past year, they would know this. And when they don't, they would seek the opinion of those who do actually pk consistantly.

not a single die-hard pk'er wants this change, and it's being forced upon us, and we simply "have to deal with it", just as we have simply dealt with things in the past.

Legend has been known for making small changes, and that's a good thing. Drastic change is bad, and this pkok idea is a VERY drastic change. Not for those who don't pk, but for those of us who have stuck with pk through thick and thin, those of us that have said, :this "this is the way pk is, always has been, and always will be, and I like it this way".

I'll step my boundaries and agree that pk could use a few changes, those changes being small. Perhaps ridding of multi, for a simple start. Perhaps after that you could run a tourney once a month, promoting pkill in general, after all, waiting 6 months to enter a tourney is a long time, a char may never get a chance to enter at the level he or she would like.

anyway, these changes are very redundant, and not needed. And I won't mention imms are still pretty clueless themselves about how healers will fit into all of this, which frightens me about the whole thing. I just think it will be one huge bug.

anyway, I've rambled enough, you all know I'm against this 110%.

From: Ariel Friday, September 10, 11:46AM

Hrm, I might not be a diehard pkiller, but I have had five of them, so I have put a considerable amount of time and effort into that part of the game. And while I have misgivings, what's the harm of giving the damn thing a chance? As has been said many times, NOTHING IS FINALIZED. EVERYTHING IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. The imms have said that it's NOT like the xp scale. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's also been said that if it doesn't work, it'll be changed or taken out entirely. Also, unless you're trying to say that Barabas and Morphine are some fly-by-night pkill journeymen, you can't by any means say that "not a single die-hard pkiller wants this change." ALSO, to say that drastic change is bad is simply ridiculous. If you have been here for five years, you should know damn well that this mud has gone through PLENTY of drastic changes, most of which made it better. Feh, just see what happens and give it a chance before you make up your mind, what's so tough about that?

From: LadyAce Friday, September 10, 12:56PM

In response to Fear, mostly... I don't expect everyone to like it. This system has its benefits, and it has its drawbacks. You say that the problem is people who abuse the system, not the code. We've given the people a chance to fix the problems, for a long time now, and the people haven't changed or caused others to change. So now we're looking at something we CAN change, that's the code.

So yes, we're going to put in a system that you and others may or may not like. That is NOT the same thing as telling you that you don't matter. I've addressed your concerns about snipers and jumping previously, but to reiterate -- we're going to try to make it so that people feel generally comfortable with pkok all, and we've discussed a "clan wars" option where pkok (a clan) would be an option that the GM could impose on all members, and the members could not turn it off. Sure, you will not be able to jump the absolutely unwilling. But can you really say that those are the kind of people you want to jump? Don't you want to jump the people who will atleast play along, be some kind of a challenge for you? Gag and the no-tells config were not the death of social interaction on the mud, they simply make it more flexible and manageable. In every other point of interaction between players, there is an element of choice and consent. We're adding that to pk.

If you have other suggestions or options which keep the spirit of pkok (i.e. the end of the most aggressive elements imposing their style of play on to other people with disregard for the other's wishes) but help increase that element of surprise, I'd be happy to hear them.

We've discussed this plan with many active pkillers, we have active pkillers on the staff, and we'll continue to listen to the opinions of everyone -- be they pk or npk -- as the system develops.

This system is not devised, necessarily, to eliminate multi, or to eliminate some particular people. It's devised to revolutionize the way pkill happens on this mud. And yes, it's a drastic change. This is a time of drastic changes.

What I think you ought to remember, though, is that from the immortal perspective, it's PKOK or NOPK. So while we will have the ability to toggle the pk styles available, this is the direction we're going. The nice thing about toggleable pk styles is that if there are bugs, or problems in design that we can't fix right away, we can simply toggle the styles while we wait.


From: Akai_Hayate Friday, September 10, 01:29PM

first off -cheer fear-

damn right, dont know how many times ive gotten that "you knew the risk when you enabled" line

and second, sorry sandra i didnt know my opinion was a waste of memory

wont post again..

From: Fear Friday, September 10, 06:58PM

-poke the 13th commandment-

thou shall hath the right to post as thou wishes!



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