Table of Contents

Request: PK Clans vs RP Clans

The discussion board Topics

Posted by LadyAce on 10/08

Hi all --

I'm making a request for ideas, because frankly I think we're a bit short on them. So, here goes...

We'd like to make more incentives to use the clan system, and make valuable distinctions between PK clans and RP clans. In particular, we'd like to keep the "mixed" clan possibility, while keeping some advantages to each type.



From: Redd Monday, September 20, 09:38PM

First off, I think it'd be necessary to expand the clan limit, both in the number of clans available and their roster. Clans, in my opinion, don't have a long cycle of 'motivation' making most of them become inactive as the member chars' players lose interest in their char. Thus, it'd be necessary to allow for people to keep churning clans out while they have the motivation. If that is a burden on memory, inactive clans should be eliminated -- probably judged by member hours or influx in clan account.

Second, clan channels should be allowed freedom of speech equivalent to group tells. People spend a tad bit more time deciding to join a clan than they do deciding to join a group, so anyone not willing to put up with something on clan channels simply don't have to hear it. Maybe a code that allows imms to toggle clan channels may be necessary.

Third, clanhalls where one can rent should at least double as a banker without fees, similar to the old system for easy transfer of money, member interaction, and a possibility (greater feasibility) of it being used as a trading post. Agrabah Mafia could benefit, for example, if Marauder didn't have to pick tara inn just for its banking convenience, but use its agrabah hall or a branch office in tara for its transactions :p

Fourth, clanhalls should have their rent and cost reduced from regular homes, making it more cost-effective. The risk of investment in a clanhall is great as, although i have not tried it, clanhalls can not be as easily sold... and forming a new clan may not have much an advantage as ppl can simply befriend each other to have houses serve as clan halls. Maybe a code that allows members to "induct" their houses into "clanhall" so their maintenance goes down, and a vice-versa "outcasting" of rooms/houses to cut-down on costs and making revenue without having to demolish them.

Fifth, as an extension of suggestion one and four, clans should gain xperience via the amount of hours members spend being actively online. By this, I guess I mean hours racked without an incidence of disappearing into the void -- yes ppl can still bot and ghost and whatever, but even that sort of presence helps out a clan... the accumulated hours will probably serve as "rent" just like a char's level, allowing clanhalls to store certain amount of eq without having to pay for them. For example, a clan with 1000 member hours maybe allowed 3000 free rent, 2000 member hours 6000 free rent, etc. If the clan does not use their eq rent discount, that rate will simply apply to housing costs. So a seriously active clan could probably not have to worry about rent after a certain time, and after a REALLY long time, they'll actually earn money doing nothing if they manage negative rent. :P

Sixth, although it may be a burden to PR imms and the mud in general, clans could be awarded with either preview of areas (get conscripted as beta testers) or being allowed to "rent" a port where they can stage whatever event they wish and are given the authority to invite some others (or all).


From: Pallas Tuesday, September 21, 11:44PM

Some pretty good ideas there, Redd...

Main thing I was going to say is something ought to be done about either the number of clans or inactive clans or both, to encourage more new clans forming. it seems you have to have 5 members on at the moment a clan is disbanded to take the available slot, which makes things somewhat difficult. Also I think, to encourage clan- building, perhaps expanding the available housing areas, if possible, or even, if this is feasible, taking a special request to make housing available off of one room for a clan, but not so for individuals, and in addition, allow more freedom in naming and describing clan halls, to encourage RP-based clan halls, i.e. if someone wanted to have a clan of reclusive monks from the mountains of Spain, make available that space on the mud for housing and allow the GM to describe the monastery as the clan wants it. Again, I don't know the logistics of such a thing, if it's too hard, or what, but thats the suggestions I got for now...

For now,

the Dred Pyrat Pallas

From: Frost Wednesday, September 22, 04:40PM

hmmm, capture the flag would be cool for pk clans. doesn't have to be a fl though, could be any item the clan sets it to be, but should have a similarity between all of them. these flags could randomly load at some point, to promote actual looting that is agreed on by both sides, instead of the idiotic looting/multi we have now. hrm, you could even offer incentive to capture the flag. Not sure what yet but it wouldn't take me long to figure something out.

anyways, it's food for thought.

From: Tirasala Wednesday, September 22, 10:51PM

Well, for starters, all the ideas so far I think are pretty good. One thing i think would be good for boosting activity would be something like clan challenges. This would be something along the lines of a friendly competition between two clans. Maybe flag hunts, and recall tag and stuff where only the members of two clans can compete. Winner gets bragging rights or maybe even a prize if some kind hearted imm is willing.


From: LadyAce Thursday, September 23, 12:20AM

I'll have to go back over the ideas above, only had time to skim them at this moment -- but what I'm looking for is more on the lines of "What is the difference between pk clans and rp clans, if pk'ers sometimes rp, and rp clans can have pk members? Is there a way to make there be more advantages and disadvantages to each?" I agree that clan-related events and activities would be very fun to have, but I'm looking for more along the lines of "game design ideas than anything else :)

But don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled with the direction you guys are taking, and will spend more time following up later in the week.


From: Ton Thursday, September 23, 02:18AM

Often I have heard imms comment on their dislike of the segregation that exists betwen RP and PK on Legend. I have a question. Think about the answer a little bit.

Why are there 2 seperate types of clans?

You want to see more Rp in pkill? Mix the rpers and the pkillers together, have them associate with each other, defend each other, etc. Maybe I am overlooking something, but I think this could give more purpose to a lot of clans. Ton

From: Mariachi Thursday, September 23, 10:18AM

So this issue, then, definitely deals with the RP/PK segregation, as it was said, that exists on the mud, which is an issue that I think deals more with players than it does with game design, though I do have some ideas, kind of.

I apologize, these aren't really fleshed out...

Anyway, I think that, in terms of design, maybe we should have no break between RP and PK clans, just have clans, some people PK in them and some don't. I've noticed recently that a good number of former PK clans now exist as RP clans, but still consist mainly of PK'ers. I'm not sure exactly why those clans elected to do this, but I think it's good, if we have just one type of clan, it may even encourage RP'ing PK, as might some of the ideas mentioned above. If you still want to keep them separate, then I think the main things to do would be to create some sort of competitive events for PK clans, or some such, encouraging them to develop in a certain direction with their PKing. After all, you can't really encourage PK among an RP clan that consists of non-enabled.

As for creating advantages and disadvantages for each kind of clan, I don't really see why you want to do this. I can only see that creating game balance issues, where both kinds of clans see their disadvantages as unfair, and the other's advantages as so. I think you should create advantages for all clans, perhaps, to encourage active clanning. These could include some of the afforementioned bonuses for members being on, being active, being vocal, appearing in tinyplots, or such, and the could be advantages, also previously mentioned, such as some free rent space in the clan hall, more open-ended descriptions for clan halls, maybe even items or strings for clans, or for GMs to distribute, or such.

umm, I was saying, clan strings, certain strings, chosen by the GM, that would be given to every member of a clan. i.e. each member of the Knights gets a suit of shining armor string (random example), or some such...

I guess that's all of my thirteen cents.


From: Asterix Thursday, September 23, 09:07PM

hmm thanks


From: Darkheart Friday, September 24, 01:26AM

rpers can pk, pkers can rp, sure thing, but on both counts it should be so that they are pker first, rper later in terms of responsibility.

basically, if you want to pk even a little bit, you have to take the whole part and parcel of pk -- if it's too much a cost, you stay out of pk.


From: Ishtar Sunday, September 26, 04:09AM

As I understand it the original clan system (when official clans with halls were all pkill) was to provide pkillers with RP reasons to go after each other and to keep pkill within the IC/RP framework of the game. Now that RP clans can have offical status I'm not sure why you want to maintain a 'valuable distinction' between the two types. If we knew why this was perhaps it would help with making suggestions.

As I see it there are not many advantages to being pkill only and thats why pkill clans are switching over to RP status. Since RP clans have enabled members, there is no loss other than the slight simplification of knowing that every clan member can engage in pkill and assist in pkill situations.

The big advantage of being a RP clan is that it is MUCH easier to maintain the minimum number required for a viable clan since there is a much larger pool of chars to pick from. Personally I've found it a constant struggle to maintain a roster which is comfortably above the minimum, when it can drop from 13 to 6 members in as little as a couple of weeks, and its hard to recruit pkill enabled chars quickly. Pkill chars tend to wait till a high level to clan, and tend to quit when not able to devote a lot of time to the game.

If you really want to address this imbalance an obvious way would be to set a higher minimum number of members for RP clans since it should be muc easier for them to maintain a roster.

Other advantages for RP clans include the fact that it is easier to earn cash to maintain halls since cash runs carry no risk of interruption through pkill attacks. I don't see any way to address that since its an inherent part of pkill, however the fact is that pkill enabled members can benefit from the cash earned safely by non-enabled members.

I'm also not clear as to whether pkill enabled chars in RP clans can leave property in RP clanhalls without any risk of looting. Since items left in the hall are owned by the clan itself and not individual members, if looting from RP clanhalls is not possible, the pkill members can store equip safely. I've been wondering what happens about that one.

Otherwise I would consider creating just one list of clans and labelling them as 'Pkill enabled only' if they only take pkill characters. That would reinforce the idea that all clans have a RP purpose, and personally I don't think it matters that much how many clans decide to except both enabled and non-enabled members.



WWW Discussion Board