November 15th, 2001
Outcast with Timer?
Axis says, 'Why is it that immediatly after PK one cannot abandon his clan yet his Gm can outcast him'
Kaige says, 'So you can't run up the clan's timer and then abandon it without repercussions'
Ea! says, 'seems like probably a bug in outcast.'
Axis says, 'but our EX GM did something wrong and I couldnt get revenge caause he outcast me'
Kaige says, 'sounds like people should have been pledging to another GM before then'
Axis says, 'There should be a timer on outcasts like half of abandon or something'
Ea! says, 'sounds like a bug in outcast. He shouldn't be able to outcast you until your timer is off.'
Ea! says, 'Have you reported it via the bug channel?'
Axis says, 'didnt know it was a bug'
Ea! says, 'Never hurts to report it just in case.'
Ea! says, 'But it does seem like a bit of a bug to me.'
Axis says, 'Ill do that then :P'
Zafira says, 'why not? If somebody attacks a friend of the clan or something, shouldn't the GM be able to outcast him?'
Feedback on Bug Reports & Ideas
Craven says, 'I fear the bug channel'
Craven says, 'you send this little piece of text off into the giant vacuum that is the bug report, never knowing if it got there, how its doing, what was thought of it...'
Axis laughs with amusement.
Zafira nods her agreement with Craven.
Kaige says to Craven, 'if it reports back to you, it got there'
Craven says, 'lets be honest'
Craven says, 'who cares if it got there :P'
Zafira says, 'last week, I read something was brought up at q&a that I'd bugged months ago, and the imms were surprised to hear about it'
Zafira sighs loudly.
Craven says, 'you want to know if anything's going to be done about it or if your just a fool and thats not really a bug!'
Kaige says, 'as for the rest, do you want us to sit and write a thesis on each one, or actually get something done?'
Ea! says, 'Yeah, but since I sort through hundreds of them a week, it'd take forever to give feedback on them.'
Kaige says to Zafira, 'which?'
Craven says, 'depends on the bug :)'
Ea! says, 'It's much easier to just drop me a note if you want to know about it.'
Zafira says to Kaige, 'that the hook's attack shows up in fighttype verbose as your primary weapon'
Craven says, 'if its, "the social is using jumpr instead of jumper", don't need feedback!'
Craven says, 'something like this though your not even sure if its a bug'
Craven says, 'ignore me, I don't even play anymore, I'm just being evil'
Zafira chuckles politely at Craven's feeble witticism.
Ea! says to Zafira, 'I don't remember all of the bugs that come my way due to the volume. Sometimes I can't figure out what the bug report means, or can't verify it because I'm missing a piece of the puzzle.'
Zafira nods her agreement with Ea!.
Axis says, 'well my bug report was self explanatory'
Axis nods to himself - he must be getting senile.
Kaige says, 'or it may have gotten misfiled into the area bugs and if the builder doesn't catch it soon it takes a while to get to the proper place (coding in this case)'
Craven says, 'I like talking problems through with imms, they usually make me see something a different way, even if I still don't agree'
Zafira says, 'I'm not trying to cast around blame or anything, but it is true that we never know what happens once we make a bug report'
Axis nods his agreement with Craven.
LadyAce says, 'we don't always understand that what's said in a bug report is identical to the question in Q & A'
Axis says, 'yeah It would be nice to get a mud mail that our bug has been looked at'
LadyAce says, 'in the coder todo list, it doesn't give a full paragraph description of the problem'
Craven hugs LadyAce.
Zafira nods her agreement with Axis.
Craven sniffs sadly at LadyAce.
LadyAce says, 'it says it in coderspeak :) something like SEC_ATTACK is not calling foo.c in function DO_KILL_STUFF'
Ea! says to Axis, 'I get over 100 bug reports each week. That'd take all my time to do that.'
Axis says, 'make it automatic'
Axis says, 'just so we knoe that you actually recieved it'
LadyAce says, 'no one remembers that that's the same thing as you just asked in the Q & A, unless you're the coder who did the translation'
LadyAce says, 'all bug reports are logged'
LadyAce says, 'we get them all'
Ea! nods his agreement with LadyAce.
Kaige says to Zafira, 'found your report from June on that with the hook. next step is to track where it went'
Kaige chuckles politely.
Zafira smiles at Kaige.
Kaige says to Zafira, 'and it was nicely detailed. =)'
Not Many Changes Recently?
Craven says, 'simple question really, just wondering if something big is in the process or if everyone is just really busy. Haven't been very many changes in the month.'
Ea! says, 'Really busy.'
LadyAce says, 'lots of RL busy-ness, yea.'
Ea! says, 'Plus, a bunch of changes have been internal to the code and/or tools for builders.'
Make Staff Staves?
Zafira says, 'what is the purpose of staffs that you make with make staff being no_give? Since they have no stats, it would be nice to be able to give them to newbies'
LadyAce says to Kaige, 'maybe you can take this one?'
Kaige says, 'basically they used to be fairly good and were intended to be better than you could just pick up easily.. unfortunately, it became a self-fulfilling prophecy people said they sucked to they've remained "sucking".'
Kaige says, 'and we haven't had a chance to get back to them.'
Kaige says, 'but they're definitely not intended as newbie weapons'
Craven says, 'I gave them a try'
Craven says, 'my fighter with 49 damroll hit harder with a staff of brahman...'
Craven says, 'maybe he just got unlucky, I dunno'
Zafira says, 'well, without any stats, I doubt any high level char would use them. I figure it's something like forged weapons, and you can give those away.'
Glip says, 'they should be like amulets, differnet material used to make them, gives you different effects, like resist stun'
Kaige mutters trees.
Craven says, 'only cool thing about them is you can make a pussy-willow staff :P'
Zafira giggles at Kaige.
Axis says, 'Trees where'
LadyAce hugs Kaige.
Axis peers around the room intently.
Axis says, 'I aint seeing no trees'
Axis ducks to the ground.
Kaige says, 'I dunno.. can't see 'em for the forest most days.'
Axis says, 'Im afraid of trees'
Zafira says, 'I have faith in trees'
Axis says, 'There gonna change the whole aspect of legend'
Kaige says, 'yes and no'
Craven says, 'if different wood types ever make different types, THAT would be interesting'
Kaige says, 'more like firm up an intended aspect in many ways'
LadyAce nods her agreement with Craven.
Zafira says, 'I think different woods make different weights, but I really haven't experimented with it much'
Craven says, 'different woods don't matter'
Craven says, 'different levels matter somewhat, but not woods'
Glip says, 'well, is what jade said true, that a lot of the skillstrees are allready implamented and we are using it, but the overall concept or changeover is not done'
Craven says, 'I think a lot of the "prep" for skilltrees is in'
Axis says, 'I mean I would understand if trees were implemnted when I got here but not during mid play'
LadyAce says, 'it depends on what you mean by skilltrees'
Craven says, 'its all the same'
Glip nods solemnly.
LadyAce says, 'skilltrees can mean a set of changes, some of which are in, or it can mean a very specific set of skills set up in a treed pattern, which aren't in.'
LadyAce says, 'the word gets used in both ways'
Eloquence & Inspire?
Flaco says, 'question about eloquence, is it still automatic for all chars? or did I miss a change?'
LadyAce says, 'should be'
Ea! says, 'Moods are automatic for everyone.'
Kaige says, 'moods are automatic for all chars...'
Axis says to Flaco, 'Are your moods on or of'
Kaige says, 'speak, discuss and the prereq it are not'
Ea! says, 'The eloquence skill isn't. Eloquence gives access to the discuss command, which will eventually be used in various places around the mud.'
Flaco says, 'because the incite command is giving my a message that "you can't incite without some inspiring music or eloquent words..'
LadyAce says, 'yeah, moods are separate from eloquence now, sorry :) that's what I meant.'
Flaco says, 'I once learned eloquence, then traded it in, so do I need to relearn it?'
Ea! nods his agreement with Flaco.
Kaige says, 'either of the prereqs for inspire will work'
LadyAce says, 'you need it if you want to use the skills that rely on it.'
Flaco says, 'OK'
Balm Changes Coming?
Vendetta says, 'Pardon me. I'm lagging quite a bit, but I have this question... Did you change the balm effect yet?'
LadyAce says, 'no, we're still talking about that as far as I know.'
Vendetta says, 'any estimated time of change?'
Ea! says, 'Just for clarity, we may or may not change the affects of balm. We will do something to address the problems that the change from roots to balm brought up, though.'
Axis cheers for Ea! - huzzah!
Ea! says, 'No time frame on it. not in the next few weeks.'
Vendetta says, 'I would like to say that a lot of people use roots in PK'
Axis says, 'Like a cause mage Greater healing Blam that works 2 times as fast'
Vendetta says, 'but with the the healing is not even effective'
Zafira says, '...or just nix cure crit'
Glip says, 'nix cure crit is bad idea, imho'
Zafira says to Glip, 'it would make true healers like yourself more powerful'
Glip says, 'yeah, a little too powerful'
Flaco nods solemnly.
Glip says, 'right now, because im a druid, I have an advantage over create mages big time, because of their lack of healing'
Glip says, 'take away cure crit, and all mages become that less effective in pkill'
Glip says, 'then we are in a druids world, until augment is played with'
Glip says, 'then we may all be just straight fighters, and diversity is out the window'
Vendetta nods his agreement with Glip.
Axis nods his agreement with Glip.
Vendetta says, 'now all the 2nd circle create characters are useless'
Glip says, 'take away all healing and jelly will rule this mud'
Glip snickers softly.
Zafira says, 'I just think the druids and surgeons are healers. Mages should only have minor ways of healing themselves.'
Glip says, 'I believe in the immortals ability to see a problem in correct it in time. something will be done for create mages to bring them back in'
LadyAce says, 'it's just a matter of choosing an approach, right now'
Glip says, 'well, I think cure crit should be self only'
Glip says, 'and whatever the immortals do about create mage healing and the pkill delema should be self only'
Vendetta says, '40hp per 25 is much more than any healer'
Glip says, 'I do'
Glip smiles happily.
Enmity shivers uncomfortably.
Imms "Helping" Players?
Glip says, 'okay, my question is about game design and integrity with the immortals'
Glip says, 'bare with me please'
Glip says, 'the other night I lead an sl run, we did the witches but before we could get the key from corpse, aprox 30 seconds after witches died, the corpses poofed... so no key'
Glip says, 'I asked cheyla if anything could be done, and she told me that immortals could not help with those situations because they may play favorites with people'
Glip says, 'my question is why is this rule in effect for immortals'
LadyAce says, 'if it's not a bug, we can't intervene.'
Glip says, 'I dont understand how helping keep the game in an even flow during times that are extremely laggy and problems arise is playing favorites'
Kaige says, 'so all players have a fair playing ground?'
Zafira says, 'imms never give in-game help unless it is a known bug.'
Ea! says to Glip, 'How would you feel if you were on a run, and an imm loaded the key for his or her alt. Then, a few days later, you couldn't convince an imm to do it? '
Kaige says, 'because not everyone would get that same advantage as we don't have people here to do that 24/7'
LadyAce says, 'bad luck is just that -- bad luck. There are ways to work around it.'
Ea! nods his agreement with Kaige.
Zafira says, 'is there some mechanism controlling how long corpses last until they poof, or was that a bug?'
Kaige says, 'so the people who think to ask for help don't get special treatment over people who are more loaners and may not know the imms as well'
Glip says, 'ok, first I would think that all immortals would or should help in that situation, second if their are no immorts here to help, then you really are out of luck'
LadyAce says, 'corpses last for many many ticks, as far as I know'
Glip says, 'playing favorites sounds like we should be in Kindegarden and getting lessons from the teacher on how to share our playdo'
Axis shakes his head in disagreement with LadyAce.
Glip says, '30 seconds, in which we were lagged out, honest'
Ea! says to Glip, 'What if you knew there was an imm on because they warned you for cursing on channels a few minutes earlier but they're now sitting wizinvis? '
Axis says, 'Ive seen kills and the corpse poof next tick in crusaeds I think they poof at a set time in mud'
LadyAce says, 'If we can't verify it or trace a pattern, it doesn't qualify for a reimb'
Ea! says, 'The problem is, we need to be above reproach when it comes to this sort of thing.'
Glip says, 'I know this is not a perfect world, I just think that since we are being affected by things not in the control of immortals or players.. some concessions should be considered for the time being'
Glip says, 'I was quite taken aback by the incident, I felt that it was very juvenile that immortals would have such a rule in effect, however necessary it may be'
Zafira says, 'I feel better with the rule in effect. Best to miss out on the latter half of sl than let cronyism run rampant'
Glip says, 'I am not niave enough to believe that immortals can be perfect.. but shouldn't there be a little trust placed on the people who govern this mud... to be able to govern their actions accordingly'
Kaige says to Glip, 'there is. but we also have certain guildelines in place so that EVERYONE knows what to expect'
LadyAce says, 'this is the way we've chosen to govern ourselves, it really does save us a lot of trouble and keeps it fair.'
Valya says to Glip, 'but there are alot of people who don't'
LadyAce says, 'the last thing I want to hear is how some other imm would've said yes when I said no, or vice versa'
LadyAce says, 'that happens too much as it is'
Kaige says, 'keeps down the "but you helped them.. why'm I stuck doing it the hard way" stuff too.'
Kaige nods her agreement with LadyAce.
Axis nods his agreement with LadyAce.
Kaige says, 'we get enough of that as it is.'
Glip says, 'with this inccident, I was thinking of a fix for the problem, is it possible to setup the chest after witches to have a timer so that it can be picked for a certain duration.. in case key is lost or does not load or corpse goes poofy'
Valya says, 'what would the point in getting be then?'
Glip says, 'so you would kill the witches and for 10 ticks or so, the chest is pickable, then that advantage dies also, or maybe 20 ticks'
LadyAce says, 'suggest that on idea, and Rufus will take a look'
Zips & Others/Clans RP?
Axis says, 'Why are imms not allowed to make a zip that fits RP and was caused by RP if its about a clan'
LadyAce says, 'the zip needs to be approved by the gm of the clan'
Axis says, 'but'
Axis says, 'but but'
LadyAce says, 'but what? Why would you want an rp that someone hadn't agreed to?'
Axis says, 'The GM would never approve it, it in no way would have harmed the clan'
Axis says, 'ITs an RP I make my RP'
Axis says, 'ITs an RP that also started in the Clan'
Zafira says to Axis, 'then pledge self'
LadyAce says, 'you can't RP with someone against their consent, it just doesn't work.'
Axis says, 'I mean I could see if it was Degrading'
LadyAce says, 'you need to find a different route to get what you want.'
Axis says, 'but it wasnt'
Axis says, 'heres what happend'
LadyAce says, 'that's the GM's call.'
Axis says, 'I was in Clan clan did something that I didnt like and he outcast me'
Axis says, 'my Zip would only serve the breaking of my ties with the Clan'
LadyAce says, 'talk to the GM about it.'
LadyAce says, 'you can rp what you want, ultimately, I guess.'
Axis says, 'well if its my RP why would I have to do that'
LadyAce says, 'but an imm-made zip has a certain 'stamp of approval' and 'official' quality to it'
Axis says, 'My RP doesnt want my GMs permision to RP'
Zafira says, 'wouldn't a zip that only has to do with you, and not your former clan, better serve that purpose?'
LadyAce says, 'we can't support you entering into a non-consensual RP. We frown on it.'
Axis says, 'IT served me'
LadyAce says, 'your RP and having an OOC discussion with a GM are very different things'
Axis says, 'It would of been a reminder to my RP what had happend'
Axis says, 'My old GM doesnt believ in OOC'
LadyAce says, 'you can do that without stating the clan name'
Axis says, 'It didnt state a Clan name at all'
LadyAce says, 'you can make it 'memories of rejection' or something.'
Vendetta says, 'this is too laggy'
Axis says, 'it wasnt degrading to the clan in any form at all'
Axis says, 'I just dont see how my RP has to be governed by my clans GM'
LadyAce says, 'not your RP. just the zips we give you, if you must use their name'
Axis says, 'It didnt use there name in whole'
Zafira says, 'your RP is governed by the people you RP with. Otherwise you're just RP'ing alone, and that's no fun'
Valya says, 'well, I'm certain you could find it annoying if an imm made a zip for me with eg. "carries the baby of axis" or whichever, without asking you'
Axis says, 'It was'
Axis says, 'thast Different'
LadyAce says, 'if you want to make an appeal of a decision, you go to the department head, with full details, and if that doesn't work, you can also appeal to Kaige'
Axis says, 'I had a group of people sharing the same journey in the RP so it wasnt just my RP'
LadyAce says, 'but you might want to try talking to the GM again.'
LadyAce says, 'send a mudmail, request an OOC conversation about the topic.'
Axis says, 'as mad as he is about what happend thats not gonna be possible me thinks'
Zafira says, 'maybe he's more made icly'
Axis says, 'I mean I dont need it now I was just wondering reasons behind its denial in the first place'
Kaige says, 'Did the immort give one at the time?'
Axis says, 'Haley posted it on the PR board cause she dont trust me :P'
Kaige says, 'did she give you a reason at the time, that is?'
Kaige nods solemnly.
Axis says, 'she said she couldnt do it without Clans permission but I thought that to be too vague a reason'
LadyAce says, 'that's the right answer...and it makes it your job to get that permission.'
Axis says, 'I jsut dont see the need to involve people outside the RP'
Valya says, 'well, it rather does if you ask a thirdparty to certify it with a zip string'
Axis says, 'I know you wouldnt do something like "the remains of jelly's corpse" without his consent but mine was nothing like that'
Axis says, 'all my zip idea was a modification of an ingame zip to serve the purpose of me and my companions'
LadyAce says, 'I think you should follow the imm's advice and talk to the GM about the situation.'
Axis sighs loudly.
Axis says, 'so I have to get the GM's permission to break stuff'
Ea! says to Axis, 'Get it to "falling to pieces"'
Axis says, 'but that wont show up when I pull it out of my bag'
Ea! says, 'well, I'm not sure there's much more any of us can say on the subject. You'll need to either talk to the GM, or appeal the decision...'
Axis sighs loudly.
Axis nods solemnly.
Kaige says, 'yeah and with a zip that's so associated with one particular clan in that manner...'
Kaige says, 'your best best is talking to the gm'
Axis says, 'what if the GM at the time is no longer in the clan'
Axis says, 'hypotheticly'
Kaige says, 'the clan that's using the zip now has a GM.'
Kaige says, 'that's who you need to talk to'
Axis says, 'and that means explang my RP over and over again :P'
Kaige says, 'no, that means mudmailing them and saying "hey, this is what I want to do, this work with you?> I need permission from the clan to get an imm to do this zip for me"'
Kaige says, 'no rp involved there.'
Axis says, 'but then they will say no cause they dont know the reason behind it'
Axis loves being stubborn
Ea! says to Axis, 'Write up a nice story for the LT and point them to it if they want more details?'
Axis nods solemnly.
Hunger Bug Fixed?
Rikimaru says, 'hunger fixed yet?'
Ea! says, 'haven't been able to figure out what's going on.'
Rikimaru says, 'how bout the nickle .45 and gae-bolg situation?'
Ea! says, 'Don't know about that one.'
Axis says, 'whats that one'
Rikimaru says, 'can't wield a bolg while your holding an nicker .45 if you have another item held'
Axis says, 'are you holding it with 1 hand or 2'
Axis says, 'some weapons need lots of str'
Axis nods to himself - he must be getting senile.
Rikimaru says, 'thats with 40 str'
Rikimaru says, 'the amount needed to wield it one handed'
Rikimaru says, 'but i can do it with a katar, go figure'
Kaige says, 'katar's a lot smaller too, which also counts'
Kaige says, 'like I said last night, help hands.'
Axis nods his agreement with Kaige.
Rikimaru rolls around on the ground with laughter.
Rikimaru says, 'i can name 3 characters that ARE wielding a gae-bolg and a nickle .45 + a hand item'
Rikimaru says, 'so either you changed something or broke something because it used to work'
Kaige says, 'the same held item, and with your same stats?'
Rikimaru nods solemnly.
Rikimaru says, 'all only with 40str'
LadyAce says, 'sometimes I've seen it make a difference what order you wielded the item in'
Rikimaru says, 'i heard that, tried every order'
LadyAce says, 'but I think we probably fixed a bug you were relying on, rather than breaking something'
Ea! says to LadyAce, 'The bug with order was fixed, I think.'
LadyAce says, 'maybe that explains it, then.'
Rikimaru shrugs helplessly.
Rikimaru says, 'i asked that long beofre i started bugging it'
Ea! says, 'Was it the same 3rd item?'
Ea! says, 'And if so, which item?'
Rikimaru nods his agreement with Ea!.
Rikimaru pokes a polished scale - It's dead, Rikimaru.
LadyAce says, 'did any of your stats change? Or any other factors about your char?'
Ea! says, 'My guess is that there are other factors that you're not taking into consideration, but I can't tell you more without revealing in game information...'
LadyAce nods her agreement with Ea!.
Rikimaru says to LadyAce, 'knocks my perc down by 3'
Rikimaru says to LadyAce, 'so it knocks a stat down by 3 and wastes 2 stat points'
LadyAce says, 'no...I mean, did you change anything about your char between when it worked and when it stopped workin?'
Rikimaru says, 'so now that i know your not fixing it i have to rework my whole set'
Rikimaru shrugs helplessly.
LadyAce says, 'we're confident it's not a bug, but rather a factor you're not considering. I'm sorry that we have to be so vague. If you play around with it, you might well figure out the problem yourself.'
Rikimaru says, 'you just might wanna post something about it on the board so when people die and can't wield thier weapon they know why'
LadyAce says, 'it's not a new thing at all....I don't think there's too much reason for a publicity campaign. Play around with it, figure it out, you'll see what I mean.'
Rikimaru says to LadyAce, 'i "played" around with it for 2 hours, its just as simple it says the hands are full, the hands are full'
LadyAce says, 'well, we've confirmed that it's not a matter of order -- what else did you mess around with changing?'
Rikimaru says, 'i could do it with anyother item but the gun'
Rikimaru says, 'could hold vials, held an uzi, held plants'
Axis pokes help weight too :P
LadyAce says, 'no, what I mean is, what other factors about your char did you try changing?'
Rikimaru says to Axis, 'we already reviewed the fact that i'm not over weight now stop treating me like an idiot'
Axis licks Rikimaru.
Axis taunts Rikimaru mercilessly.
Rikimaru says, 'tried it with a str'
Rikimaru says, 'same thing, i had someone object id the gun and it was showing as 2handed'
Rikimaru says, 'cheyla statted my gun and said it wasn't flagged as 2 handed'
What's with the Lag?
Korgan says to Ea!, 'yall ever find out y its laggin so bad?'
Rikimaru says to Korgan, 'because we're on a lowerband width connection'
Axis says to Korgan, 'Something about a clogged pipe'
Axis ducks to the ground.
Korgan nods solemnly.
Korgan says, 'guess havin cable dont help then..'
Rikimaru says, 'read welcome 11'
LadyAce says, 'we're not using all that much bandwidth right now, but we're not getting much from the provider :/'
Axis says to LadyAce, 'I just want a date for phase 2 :P'
LadyAce says, 'we're not sure when we'll be able to upgrade our connection, but we really want to, believe me!'
Korgan nods his agreement with LadyAce.
Love Social Obj Message?
Axis says, 'I have a question'
Axis says, 'the Love social'
Axis says, 'how can I put it'
Axis would just LOVE to have a fork-tongued sword.
Axis says, 'Why would I love to have a sword I already have it'
Axis says, 'shouldt it be wouldnt you love to have xxx'
Axis says, 'or something along those lines'
LadyAce says, 'it could be on the ground'
Axis says, 'like "axis wonders if you would LOVE to have a fork-tounged sword"'
LadyAce says, 'there's lotsa ways to do it :) you an always emote'
Kaige says, 'would make sense if socials with objects could be directed at people'
Axis says, 'or'
Axis says, 'like "axis wonders if anyone would LOVE to have a fork-tounged sword"'
LadyAce says, 'suggest it via idea'
LadyAce says, 'I think that does it for tonight then.'
Kaige waves happily.
Kaige says, 'thanks for coming. =)'
Kaige gives gives a big hug to everyone in the room.
Kaige waves happily.