Lecture Series Index

June 6th, 2002

Q & A Index

Topics Covered

Recent Net Problems
Changes to Elementals
Ripping out PKOK/PK Discussion
Unposted Updates?
Reject and Accept All
Sword Sheaths?
Items Reversing when Renting?
Where to Report Bugs?
Sniper Changes?
More on Elemental Changes

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Recent Net Problems

LadyAce says to Kaige, 'PPPoE sucks :P the outages last night were due to their authentication server in Chicago being down (can't remember if I told you)'

Kaige wrinkles her nose with distaste.

LadyAce says, '"always on" -- except when it's not :)'


Changes to Elementals

Monique says, 'the elementals, are they going to like die if you take a golem over water?'

Kaige says, 'lessers will be affected more than greaters, but if you keep them out of their element long enough, then yes, they could.'

Monique says, 'ok why?'

Monique snickers softly.

Sigrid says, 'i beleive its either to make it realistic or power them down?'

Kaige says, 'this is basically FINALLY getting around to implementing them as they were originally designed. They were made to match the helpfiles.'

Sigrid says, 'probably both'

Monique nods her agreement with Kaige.

Kaige says, 'to provide more choices and strategies to using them too.'

Monique says to Kaige, 'i'm sure chat channel will be exploding tomorrow :p'

Kaige nods her agreement with Monique.

Mabel nods her agreement with Monique.

Mabel giggles.


Ripping out PKOK/PK Discussion

Masha says, 'Is there ever going to be a point where PKOK will ever be ripped out and replaced with original PK?'

Masha says, 'I'm getting tired of people running their mouths, then not being able to back it up because they've "rejected" me'

LadyAce says, 'I don't think we have any intention of changing our PK mode'

Kaige says, 'I seriously doubt it. Many imms would rather see pk removed completely than go back to what we had before.'

Sigrid says to Masha, 'Non-pks can let their mouths run as well'

Masha says, 'well, in all honesty on my part, Legend's gotten pretty stale over it.'

Masha shrugs helplessly.

Devi says, 'I wouldn't mind this place focusing more on intense RP and less on killing sprees'

Devi ducks to the ground.

LadyAce says, 'We're willing to consider changes of various sorts, and we talk about them from time to time.'

Masha says, 'so talk, never actually do anything about, eh?'

Kaige says to Masha, 'I think the players have let it get that way. The ones I see out actively making their own fun and making sure both sides are enjoying it, jumps and all -- seem to be doing just fine.'

Sigrid nods her agreement with Kaige.

Masha says, 'I'm just speaking for all those who seemed to be jaded.'

Masha says, 'considering I'm the expert on being jaded and cynical behaviour'

Rafe smirks at Masha.

Devi says, 'And what about RPers? This place brings more 12 year olds that just want another game then most, I put a post asking for RPers to play in my wedding TP in the library and not one person's answered'

Sigrid says to Masha, 'maybe you need to do something yourself instead of demanding it for others, I know it can be done and working, pkill, jumping, multiing, wolfing and still having fun'

Devi mopes around, depressed.

Masha says to Sigrid, 'Gimme a count of all the truly active pkers, then we'll talk'

Kaige says to Devi, 'Well, you could bring some of your friends who mud by and help tip the balance... all the RPers are welcome to do that too.'

Masha says to Kaige, 'No offence, it was a nice thing to start with, but I've seen so many people up and leave since it was put in because they're facing the same crap I am. I'm just too stubborn to leave.'

Sigrid says to Masha, 'dont know what you mean about truly active, I have alts who cant be on for 5 minutes without getting jumped'

Devi says, 'None of my friends mud, that's the thing, I play on mushes but they all hate muds so its a little tipsy for me'

Kaige nods her agreement with Devi.

Isam has AA alts than can sit afk in and inn and not be jumped.

Sigrid says, 'maybe AA isn't the trick? maybe rp inspired pk is actually getting you more fights?'

Masha says, 'I sat for 4 days AA and was never jumped'

Masha says, 'I mean, come on, an easy battle druid should have been a target even the most inexperienced should have been able to jump'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'Well, i've been meaning to write a LT about him, hehe'

Sigrid nods her agreement with Isam.

Rafe says, 'hell, my knight alt doens't even get jumped anymore :p'

Sigrid says, 'meaning to, maybe thats another thing? meaning to jump somebody, meaning to pick a fight.. don't know.. there's a lot of things i mean to do too'

Kaige says, 'A couple of the things to do if you're really looking for action and you're bummed because you're AA and not getting it, is to look at how you've reacted in the past and see if it's behavior YOU'D want to interact with.'

Sigrid nods solemnly.

Isam says to Kaige, 'I've taken deaths well as that alt, and been very sportsmanlike i'd say...well ok i fight dirty =P'

Kaige says, '2) advertise, not just on channels, but in the LT, on the war board, try to stir things up IC with other people you're interested in fighting.'

Kaige says to Isam, 'I was trying to answer in general, not just for you.'

Isam nods solemnly.

Isam says to Kaige, 'i know'

Isam says to Kaige, 'i'm saying it i still dont get to fight often'

Sigrid says to Isam, 'make yourself some favorite enemies, make them hate your guts for IC reasons, that'll make them come back'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'I get enough hatred as this alt thank you =P'

Kaige says to Isam, 'one of the things I've seen work well recently is get together with some people you've become friends with OOC and set up opposing characters and play off each other. Where your alts are intertwined, but on opposite sides...then you have someone to hangout with/fight with/play off of either way'

Sigrid nods solemnly.

Isam says to Kaige, 'that could be fun'

Rafe nods his agreement with Kaige.

Sigrid says, 'dunno, that takes friends though.'

Sigrid doesn't like the thought.

Masha grins evilly at Sigrid.. wonder what she's thinking...

Masha says to Sigrid, 'I have to have friends first'

Masha winks suggestively at Sigrid.

Kaige says, 'Imagine two PK clans set up that way. One on one side of an issue, and one on the other, and they were only accepting each other.'

Sigrid says to Masha, 'exactly'

Kaige says to Isam, 'that give you some ideas?'

Isam says to Kaige, 'well, thats a idea, but then again i prefer a little less organization'

Isam says, 'my idea is a dual pk system, let pkok be used for duels and have a seperate AA for those that like it.'

Isam ducks to the ground.

Sigrid says to Isam, 'do you think that'd make more AAs?'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'Yes'

Sigrid says, 'more people for you to fight? why?'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'because rejecting causes all sorts of problems'

Sigrid says to Isam, 'still if there's still the 'duel only accept solution' people who doesn't want to AA would choose that wouldn't they?'

Kaige says to Isam, 'the thing is, that can basically be done in this system now, only people don't seem to want to do it themselves, they want someone else to do it for them.'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'the problem is non aa people accepting just one AA person, it creates way to many oppurtunities for abuse'

Isam says to Kaige, 'You'd have to go AA, and then sit there and reject EVERY OTHER CHARACTER that didnt have a *'

Isam says to Kaige, 'thats not feasible'

Kaige shakes her head.

Kaige says, 'no one said you had to go AA'

Sigrid says to Isam, 'if you dont like the way some people act, YOU can always reject that person, you're no less man for rejecting jerks for ooc reasons'

Kaige says, 'that's merely an option under the system. not a requirement. And certainly NOT the same as oldschool.'

Kaige says, 'Oldschool is getting several pk clans accepting each other and only dealing with each other.'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'Rejecting after the fact is a moot point'

Sigrid says to Isam, 'so dying once kills you?'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'Its not dying once that i'm talking about'

Isam shrugs helplessly.

Kaige says, 'if you're worried about dying once, I'd say AA isn't for you... and even that pk isn't for you.'

Isam says to Kaige, 'I'm not'

Isam looks up into the sky and ponders.

Isam says to Kaige, 'i'm worried about not getting my vengeance'

Kaige says to Isam, 'again. I'm speaking in general'

Isam scuffles his feet around in the dirt.

Isam says to Kaige, 'sorry'

Sigrid says, 'rejecting can be seen as vengeance'

Masha says to Sigrid, 'the piddling way of doing it, though'

Isam says to Sigrid, 'Maybe you see it that, way i dont'

Sigrid says, 'not really'

Mabel thinks PK is supposed to be about fun. Since when was vengance of jerks fun?

Kaige says, 'if you define vengeance so narrowly as an eye for an eye, then yeah. rejecting doesn't do that. However. If you leave them unable to enjoy ruining your game, that's a much longer lasting vengeance to have wrought upon them'

Sigrid nods her agreement with Kaige.

Isam says to Kaige, 'yes, but i want something more tangible'

Isam winks suggestively at Kaige.

Kaige says, 'and especially when you tell your buddies about them, and they reject them too, lessing the pool even further.'

Isam says, 'no, thats fine certainly'

Isam says, 'I get PK when i want as this alt, its odd'

Isam snickers softly.

Isam says, 'if you can call it PK'

Isam says, 'but dont get me started on str/con'

Isam nods his agreement with Masha.


Unposted Updates?

Masha says to LadyAce, 'just wondering if there were any good updates in the code this week, and whatnot.'

Sigrid points at the welcome board.

Sigrid says, 'judge for yourself'

Masha says to Sigrid, 'i was wanting to know if there were more that what was on the board'

Kaige says, 'we can hope the change to saves and housing is a good one, and not a major lag inducer.'

Masha nods her agreement with Kaige.

Masha says to Kaige, 'one of the reasons i don't want to build a house is because of that'

Haley says, 'housing saves is a biggy if we can remember back to the housing probs of late'

Haley chuckles politely.

Kaige says, 'When we tried it on the old machine we slowed to a crawl, but we're hoping this machine can handle it better'

Kaige says, 'Yes, there's usually immortal only changes that don't affect players that we don't post to the players. Building commands, commands that change which imms get them, completely behinds the scenes stuff like that.'


Reject and Accept All

JamaciaMan says, 'people who type reject person/clan should NOT have an asterisk next to their name'

Kaige says to JamaciaMan, 'have you idea'd that?'

JamaciaMan says, 'probably not'

JamaciaMan says, 'but I might have'

Kaige says, 'wanna repeat it so I know Ea sees it?'

Pinion says, 'you mean you can accept all and then reject someone and still have an *?'

Isam nods his agreement with Pinion.

JamaciaMan says, 'either way, I've seen "AA" people on, and have gotten the "does not accept challenges from you" bull pucky'

Isam says to JamaciaMan, 'i think they should still get the asterisk though'

Pinion looks up into the sky and ponders.

JamaciaMan says, 'people who type reject person/clan should NOT have an asterisk next to their name'

Kaige thinks we'll see even less AAs then.

Masha nods her agreement with JamaciaMan.

Masha says to JamaciaMan, 'I agree with ya'

Isam think's jman is wrong.

JamaciaMan says, 'see?'

JamaciaMan says, 'pinion still has an asterisk'

Sigrid thinks isam is right.

Pinion says, 'I have an * next to me and I just rejected jama'

JamaciaMan chuckles politely at Masha's feeble witticism.

Isam says to Pinion, 'yeah its like that'

Kaige says to Pinion, 'maybe it's just him who shouldn't see your *?'

Pinion says to JamaciaMan, 'damn, I have someone in my reject list now'

Pinion shrugs helplessly.

JamaciaMan nods his agreement with Kaige.

JamaciaMan says, 'I'd like that too'

Masha winks suggestively at Haley.

Isam says to Kaige, 'now that would make sense'

JamaciaMan says, 'but it would be more complicated that way, if they reject, they should just loose the asterisk'

JamaciaMan nods his agreement with Pinion.

Pinion nods his agreement with JamaciaMan.


Sword Sheaths?

Isam says, 'i want sword sheaths! aux slot, sheath my weapon into it, keep stats from weapon but cant wield another, autodraw it if combat starts...is that doable at all? i'm sick of walking around with this thing waving around'

Isam swings a silver serrated sword.

JamaciaMan says, 'hey....I've got to control the wrath of the almighty, you don't see me bitching about it'

Kaige says, 'now that we can limit what types of items can go in container's it's more so...'

JamaciaMan raises the Wrath of JAH high in the air above his head.

LadyAce says, 'auto-draw at combat is something else tho'

Pinion says, 'maybe require you to have draw in order to autodraw from your sheath'

LadyAce says, 'you'll hafta do your own drawing, I'd say. But the item ... suggest it on idea?'

Isam says to Pinion, 'skill lag would kill that'

LadyAce says, 'well, there's draw/quickdraw'

Pinion nods his agreement with Isam.

Isam says, 'draw skill tends to leave you weapon on the ground'

Isam says, 'and thats to inventory'

Isam says, 'losing stats etc'

Isam says, 'drop what i just said on the idea channel? minus my comment at the end'

LadyAce says, 'well, if you put your weapon in a container, you'd lose the stats from doing that'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'Trying to ovoid that'

LadyAce says, 'you should drop it there, so you get credits :)'

Isam flops about helplessly.

Isam nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'it'd hafta be wielded to give you any +stats'

Isam frowns.

Isam says, 'bugger'

LadyAce says, 'otherwise, I'd wear tons of sheaths full of eq, and wear stuff in the slots, too'

LadyAce winks suggestively at Isam.

Pinion says, 'its more fun to have it swinging around... maybe you might kill something by surprise'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'well, i said "but can't wield another"'

Isam says to Pinion, 'or slip on that damned gristle and gut yourself'

Rafe laughs with amusement.

Pinion giggles at Isam.

LadyAce says, 'but if you did your stats up so you don't need whatever you have in your wielded slot -- you could cart two weapons around'

LadyAce says, 'one with a magic attack, say, and one without.'

LadyAce says, 'cuz some situations, you wouldn't want that magic attack'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'Not with as renty as str weapons are'

JamaciaMan chuckles politely.

JamaciaMan says, 'and dex weapons arn't renty?'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'yes, drawing between nuada's and another is neat, but not feasible with rent'

JamaciaMan says, 'at least the good ones'

Isam says to JamaciaMan, 'just the katar'

Pinion comforts Masha.

LadyAce says, 'Only if you're not a mage :) my fighters have tons of free rent'

JamaciaMan nods his agreement with LadyAce.

LadyAce says, 'the one you draw could be a semi-cheapy I spose.'

Rafe says, 'mine don't'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'interesting'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'my mages have TONS of rent'

Rafe says, 'mine are at 49kish'

Rafe says, 'my mages have a ton of free rent though'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'my fighters tend to be about 20 under'

Sandra says, 'ouch'

Pinion says, 'i used to do that... backstab and then draw my sword. but my backstabks sucked with low perc'

JamaciaMan says, 'I've got a dex create and he's got rent for a chalice and polished spectacles'

JamaciaMan says, 'and a little playing around rent as well'

Isam nods his agreement with JamaciaMan.

JamaciaMan says, 'vials and such'

Isam says, 'my current list is actually 48k or so'

LadyAce says, 'somethin that's Q5, with a neato special, but no stats, or somesuch. Or put that neato Q4 with that one spell in the scabbard, and draw it now and then for fun'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'but i can already do that with draw skill, i want to not have something in the wielded slot'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'wouldnt be a problem except grad stats'

Isam knows someone drawing between a sastram and a nuada's, nice if you can afford the 16+K rent.

LadyAce says, 'well, we don't really have support for that sort of a thing. It's an interesting idea :/ my suggestions are how to get mostly-the-same-thing with cosmetic details.'

LadyAce says, 'you have it in on idea, so that'll put it where all the coders can see it'

Isam nods solemnly.

Isam says, 'that works'

LadyAce thanks Isam heartily.


Items Reversing when Renting?

LadyAce says to Masha, 'did you have a question? Or was it just a private thingy and I should go on? :)'

Masha says to LadyAce, 'go on, just missing a bag filled with stuff from a crash'

Kaige says to Masha, 'did you check the reverse order of your bags?'

Masha begins to twitch nervously.

Pinion comforts Masha.

Masha says, 'god, i'm an idiot, i have it in my stuff afterall'

Isam grins evilly at Haley.. wonder what he's thinking...

Kaige says, 'cause I think something changed with how we're saving pfiles and a bunch of people have bugged that. It works like houses now. Last saved first out of the file now.'

Kaige says to Masha, 'glad it wasn't gone gone'

Masha nods her agreement with Kaige.

Isam says to Kaige, 'the order of the belt pouches on my alt keep messing up, i bugged it'

Isam says to Kaige, 'messes with my chalice alias'

Rafe nods his agreement with Isam.

Masha nods solemnly.

Masha says, 'mine too'

Kaige says, 'that's the only thing I can think of that's changed recently that would affect it.'

Rafe says, 'freaked me out the other day'

Sandra says, 'yea, it keeps putting my shoes in my well!'

Isam says to Rafe, 'I thought i had lost my chalice'

Rafe peers at Sandra, looking her up and down.

Kaige says, 'ok that's bad...'

JamaciaMan laughs with amusement.

Pinion raises his eyebrow at Sandra.

Isam says to Rafe, 'i was irritated'

Rafe nods his agreement with Isam.

Kaige looks up into the sky and ponders.

Rafe says to Isam, 'me too'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Mabel says, 'i just thought I was the crazy one'

Mabel giggles.

Rafe grins evilly at Sandra.. wonder what he's thinking...

Masha says to Rafe, 'not as strange as me'

Masha says to Rafe, 'she doesn't even have good hallucinations!'

Kaige says, 'we'll have to bug Snapper to see what changed.'

Mabel says, 'I coulda SWORN i'd put that in the other belt pouch!'

JamaciaMan chuckles politely.

Rafe winks suggestively at Masha.

Rafe says to Masha, 'we'll talk later'

Isam peers around the room intently.

Rafe says to Kaige, 'is that inventory bug getting fixed this week?'

Kaige says to Rafe, 'I doubt it. Maybe next week. I don't know if Snapper knows about it yet.'

Rafe nods his agreement with Kaige.

Rafe says to Kaige, 'i thought i lost chalices all over'


Where to Report Bugs?

Isam says to Kaige, 'i have a bug concerning my house ,should i bug it from there?'

Kaige says to Isam, 'if it's a generic housing bug anywhere's fine... if it's a specific to your house bug then there's a better idea.'

Kaige says, 'less detective work in the long run, the better it is for us'

Isam says to Kaige, 'well, one of my strings got cloned'

Kaige says to Isam, 'general. -- anywhere's fine'

Isam waves a daffodil.

LadyAce says to Isam, 'ah. You should just get rid of one of them.'

Isam says to LadyAce, 'i have to?'

Isam pouts at LadyAce.

LadyAce says, 'The backups don't update instantly'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Isam.

Isam says, 'all well'

Isam sniffs sadly at a daffodil.

LadyAce says, 'It's the right thing to do anyway.'

Isam shrugs helplessly.

LadyAce smiles at Isam.

Isam junks a daffodil.

Isam shrugs helplessly.

Isam waves happily.

Kaige smiles at Isam.

Isam says, 'was all good'

Isam smiles happily.

Isam waves happily.


Sniper Changes?

Vidar says, 'maybe it has been asked, but I read a post about sniper changes... quite a heated post i must say... what was it all about? Any clues?'

Vidar says, 'Not that I am a sniper'

Vidar chuckles politely.

Sandra raises an eyebrow inquiringly.

Vidar peers at his 30 perc.

Sandra says, 'I was out of town all week, so I probably missed it'

Vidar growls at the news board bad-temperedly.

Rafe says, 'it's on the news board'

Vidar says, '... news 14'

Rafe nods his agreement with Vidar.

Vidar grins evilly.

Vidar launches himself across the room and tackles Rusalka to the ground!

Kaige says to Vidar, 'I can't think of any recent changes to sniper that they're referring to'

Sandra nods her agreement with Kaige.

Vidar says, 'It didnt make much sense when I first read it... the form was a messed up too'

Sandra says, 'cool. Chimaera knows more than we do! Apparently'

Vidar says, 'Just wondered...'

Rafe laughs with amusement.

Vidar chuckles politely.

Vidar says, 'Wanted to ask instead of running off at the mouth'

Vidar nudges the news board over a few inches.

Kaige says to Sandra, 'at least dreams up better conspiracy theories'

Sandra nods her agreement with Vidar.

Rafe nods his agreement with Vidar.

Sandra giggles.

Sandra nods her agreement with Kaige.

Haley laughs with amusement.

Haley nods her agreement with Kaige.

Rafe says, 'conspiracy!'

Sandra says, 'I don't know of any changes to snipers. The only thing we've talked about lately is what's posted in the code update for this week'


More on Elemental Changes

Krynn says, 'oh great, i logon to find out i've been neutered'

LadyAce says, 'did you have a question, Krynn?'

Krynn says, 'no, i've gotta find a new type of character now and pretend i'm gonna build it'

Kaige says to Krynn, 'well, since you make greaters, then I'd think it'd affect you less overall, but if you rely one one type of elemental, then yes, you will have to make choices where you use them. Not all of the "affects elementals" are downgrades'

Krynn says, '"greater elementals are hurt while they spend time out of their element". which charmies does it effect specifically?'

Krynn says, 'okay, so to keep a salamander going, i've gotta stand in fire?'

Vidar says, 'I might have to test sometime and find what is which ellies element... other than naiad'

Kaige says, 'no, but I wouldn't drag him into a lake.'

Krynn says, 'what if he's flying? technically he's well above the water'

Vidar says, 'Will hurt as the vapors are stronger?'

Kaige says, 'I wanna say that case was covered...'

Krynn says, 'and ruled against i assume'

Kaige says, 'the way you said it. Salamanders ok if not in water'

Kaige says, 'but I'm not 100% sure, so be sure to let us know if it doesn't FEEL right'

Krynn says, 'okay, few charmies at a time... how many charmies does a greater count for? cuz say i've got 2 greaters and 8 lessers, what's the numbers that count against a maximum'

Kaige says, 'they all count as one.'

Krynn nods solemnly.

Kaige says, 'and I'm not sure on exact numbers, I don't have the code in front of me'

Krynn nods solemnly.

Kaige says, 'but it's mostly to curb the 100+ homunculus trains'

Krynn says, 'okay that rules out my next question, how restrictive did it just become? because i normally run 4 greater ellys & a dopple'

Kaige says, 'You shouldn't see much difference I don't think'

LadyAce says, 'It's the kind of change that you'll hafta try out in order to answer all the questions you have, though.'

Krynn says to Kaige, 'actually those didn't work for anything but klein money running :) the 5 in a fight parts of the code nixed my 100 bow & arrow theory'

Kaige says to Krynn, 'it was mostly a spam/lag issue that it fixed.'

Krynn says to Kaige, 'okay, i didn't see it posted, but i gotta ask anyway, was their any change to charmy hp, damage, or specials with this new limiting? '

Kaige says to Krynn, 'not specifically except for the animate dead one that was posted.'

Kaige says to Krynn, 'and what was posted about the elements in the weather. Some will like certain types of weather, others won't fare so well. again.. experiment will be best answer'

Krynn says to Kaige, 'it's all good i think. i rarely go 5 rooms past my house nowadays. my usual golem, sally, sprite, demon, & dopple should be pretty safe rom weather indoors i assume'

Kaige nods her agreement with Krynn.

Krynn says to Kaige, 'okay, 1 question about that actually, and i'm done...'

Krynn says to Kaige, 'will say, a greater sally take damage if it's stashed in a house? it's not standing in fire, but it's a general question about how housing will affect charmy upkeep'

Kaige says, 'we don't have any room flags specifically for LAVA. so they're safe on the ground.'

Jango says, 'salamanders are immune to fire aren't they??'

Kaige says, 'lava or any other type of fire.'

Kaige says, 'but they will be susceptible to other types.'

Krynn says to Kaige, 'i assume i can still use a sprite in a hosue then too, while there's ariel rooms, there is air in a house'

Jango says, 'technically couldnt a sally survive the erm... dt with the lavaness without fly??'

Kaige says, 'the helpfiles are what we went by when we made the changes.'

Kaige says, 'so they should be a good guide for that.'

Kaige says to Jango, 'technically, idea that for me'

Krynn says, 'dies instantly if indoors? jesus'

Jango says to Kaige, 'okies...'

Kaige says, 'ok maybe not quite as harsh as the helpfiles =)'

Krynn says, 'i hope not, help files are really harsh'

Kaige says, 'but along those ideas'

Krynn says, 'okay, this don't change much of my style then'

Krynn shrugs helplessly.

Krynn says, 'i'm fine until theres a change to stone wall :)'

Kaige says, 'none that's been talked about'

Jango says, 'so if a salamander gets fly but loses fly over an ocean it will drown like everything else right??'

Kaige says to Jango, 'anything that loses fly but can't swim will do that'

Jango says, 'would you be able to use swim to get accros the hivern?'

Jango says, 'or is it like shallow water stuff...'

Kaige says, 'no, but you have a chance of treading water instead of drowning'

Jango says, 'ah...'

Kaige says, 'shallower/shorter distance for swimming.'

Jango says, ''a chance??"''

Kaige says, 'not everyone can swim the channel'

Krynn would drown trying.

Kaige says, 'I believe so. I don't recall exactly, but I know knowing swim helps'


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